CJ Things NOT To Say To A Military Wife
February 20th, 2008 by CJ
Emily sent this to me and noted how much she agrees with these. You've probably seen some version of this.
1. "Aren't you afraid that he'll be killed?"
(This one ranks in at number one on the "duh" list. Of course we're afraid. We're terrified. The thought always lingers at the backs of our minds —but thanks brilliant, you just brought it back to the front. Maybe next you can go ask someone with cancer if they're scared of dying.)
2. "I don't know how you manage. I don't think I could do it."
(This is intended to be a compliment. Though, its just a little annoying. Here's why: it's not like all of us military wives have been
dreaming since childhood of the day we'd get to be anxious single moms who carry cell phones with us to the bathroom and in the shower. We're not made of some mysterious matter that makes us more capable, we just got asked to take on a challenging job. So we rose to the challenge and found the strength to make sacrifices.)
3. "At least he's not in Iraq."
(This is the number one most annoying comment for those whose husbands are in Afghanistan. What do they think is happening in Afghanistan? An international game of golf?
4. "Do you think he'll get to come home for Christmas/anniversary/birthday/birth of a child/wedding/family reunion, etc?"
(Don't you watch the news? No! They don't get to come home for any of these things. Please don't ask again.)
5. "What are you going to do to keep yourself busy while he's gone?"
(Short answer: Try to keep my sanity. Maybe there's a military wife out there who gets bored when her husband leaves. For the rest of us, those with and without children, we find ourselves having to be two people. That keeps us plenty busy. We do get lonely, but we don't get bored, and drinking massive amounts of wine always helps keep me busy.)
6. "How much longer does he have until he can get out?"
(This one is annoying to many of us whether our husbands are deployed or not. Many of our husbands aren't counting down the days until they "can" get out. Many of them keep signing back up again and again because they actually love what they do or they VOLUNTEER AGAIN and AGAIN to go back to Iraq b/c there is work that needs to be done.)
7. "This deployment shouldn't be so bad, now that you're used to it."
(We do learn coping skills. We figure out ways to make life go smoother while the guys are gone. But it never gets "easy" and the bullets and bombs don't skip over our guys just because they've been there before. The worry never goes away.)
8. "My husband had to go to Europe for business once for three weeks. I totally know what you're going through."
(This one is similar to number two. Do not equate your husband's three week trip to London/Omaha/Tokyo/etc. with a 6-15 month or more deployment to a war zone. Aside from the obvious time difference, nobody shot at your husband or tried to blow him up with an I.E.D., your husband could call home pretty much any time he wanted to, and he flew comfortably on a commercial plane. We do not feel bonded to you in the slightest because of this comment and, if anything, we probably resent you a bit for it. Comparing a 12 month combat deployment to a few weeks business trip is like comparing a crappy Hyundai Excel with a Mercedes convertible.)
9. "Wow you must miss him?"
(This one also gets antoher big "duh". Of course we miss our men. There are some wives who do not and they're now divorced.)
10. "Where is he exactly? Where is that?"
(I don't expect non-military folks to be able to find Anbar Province on a map, but they should know by now that it's in Iraq. Likewise, know that Kabul and Kandahar are in Afghanistan. Know that Muqtada al Sadr is the insurgent leader of the Mahdi Army in Iraq and that Sadr City is his home area. Know that Iran is a major threat to our country and that it is located between Afghanistan and Iraq. Our country has been at war in Afghanistan for seven years and at war in Iraq for five years. These basic facts are not secrets, they're on the news every night and in the papers every day —and on maps everywhere.)
11. "Well, he signed up for it, so it's his own fault whatever happens over there.
(Yes, ignorant, he did sign up. Each and every day he protects your right to make stupid comments like that. He didn't sign up and ask to be hit by anything, he signed up to protect his country. Oh, and by the way, he asked me to tell you that "You're welcome." He's still fighting for your freedom.)
12. "Don't you miss sex! I couldn't do it!"
(hmmm, no i don't miss sex. i'm a robot. seriously…military spouses learn quickly that our relationships must be founded on something greater than sex. We learn to appreciate the important things, like simply hearing their voices, seeing their faces, being able to have dinner together every night. And the hard truth is, most relationships probably couldn't withstand 12 months of sex deprivation.)
13. "Well in my opinion….."
(Stop right there. Yo, I didn't ask for you your personal political opinions. Hey, I love a heated political debate, but not in the grocery store, not in Jamba Juice, not at Nordstrom, not in a bar when I'm out with my girls trying to forget the war, and CERTAINLY NOT AT WORK. We tell co-workers about deployments so when we have to spend lunch hours running our asses off doing errands and taking care of the house, dog, and kids, they have an understanding. We do not tell co-workers and colleagues because we are giving an invitation to ramble about politics or because we so eagerly want to hear how much they hate the President, esp. while we're trying to heat up our lean cuisines in the crappy office microwaves.)
Last, but not least….
14. "OH, that's horrible…I'm so sorry!"
(He's doing his job and he's a badass. Don't be sorry. Be appreciative and please take a moment out of your comfortable American lives to realize that our MARINES/soldiers/airmen/coasties/sailors fight the wars abroad so those wars stay abroad.)
If you want to say anything, say thank you. After all, we are sexually deprived for your freedom
Not an military wife, and my dad didn't ever have to go to a war zone (German linguist/MI from '64 to '91), but I think this list is great…
What a good reading. Im an Army AD wife and I absolutely hate when people say " I dont know how you do it."
But i just reply back with, because i'm awesome like that.
Hope you don't mind but I'm going to start using that response. Seriously if I went a week without hearing that at least once I'd fall over in a dead faint.
Ugh! There should be some sort of loop hole that gives military spouses and families a free "pass" to deck these people. Respectfully, of course!
I am continually amazed week after week as I travel through the Atlanta airport and hear some of the ignorant comments and questions people say to our military personnel.
ARGH!
I'm sensing a lot of resentment from the spouse community. Is it really that bad?
YES – It is that bad! The stupidest thing anyone ever said to me was when I was asked why I don't just go visit my husband in Afghanistan. That's right up there with people that find out where my husband is and they say that they thought Obama was going to bring them all home. Iraq is NOT Afghanistan…..duh. YES – the general public is ridiculously ignorant. Visit my husband in Afghanistan……honestly!?!
While there may be a number of the general public who "don't get it", there are more that do. I'm guessing those that don't obviously aren't very educated. I can honestly say that in 25 years of being a military spouse I have never gotten any of those questions/responses. If you are, then you may want to reconsider the company you keep!
It is not necessarily the company that you keep,but the area that you are in. I never got the ignorant comments until I moved back home and it is simply b/c no one arounnd here has any military affiliation and so theyr just do not know any better. I have encountered many ridiculous comments and I have been a military wife for 12 years now.
Hey ladybug thank you and God bless you and your husband for your service to this country. I am a Marine Veteran who did NOT serve in any wars but I am VERY appreciative for all of you who did. I say ALL of you because I know that a solder needs as much prayer and tangible support that they can get.
I salute you all.
Clarence
LT, I don't think it's really that bad, but I've heard some dumb comments too. This is mainly in jest, but let's face it – all jokes are rooted in some form of reality.
People say stupid things all the time. For some reason they issue stupid licenses with a drivers license to some people. God Bless our Military and God Bless those who wait.
For those of us who occasionally run into people with military spouses deployed, can someone give some thought about the best things to say? The only thing I've said, which I don't think came off dumb or stupid or insensitive is to say, "I'll keep him/her in my prayers". I'm one NYC liberal who'd like to show support.
Thanks and God bless our troops!
David
"I'll keep him/her in my prayers" is perfect!
David, I think a simple, "Thank you for your service and please pass along my gratitude to your husband for what he does for this country" wouldn't hurt anyone. Your comment would be fine as well. You're one who understands, that's for sure!!
These are the kind of things that make you stop and think "What was going through your head when you said that?"
OMgosh….too Funny…thanks Emily and CJ for the good chuckles this am!!
I first saw a similar list when my husband left in Feb '07 It made me laugh and cry all at the same time. It's good to know how other people understand what you are going through and that the replies you're saying in your head are not just only in your head – others are thinking them too!
The most ignorant comment I heard was when I was out to lunch with a couple of co-workers and someone asked if I had heard from my hubby recently. Someone else asked, why, where was he (since I hadn't sent out a company-wide memo announcing his deployment.) I told her, and she replied,"Well, I wish MY husband would go away for a year," complaining to the wrong person about how he just sits around or whatever. I was in shock and just said looking her dead in the eye, "No, you don't."
Freakin Awesome!
I put the link on a dutch Military wives page.
and they all love it!
Re: #1
The difference between cancer and being a soldier is one is voluntary.
Here's a question for a military wife:
Why does your husband put the military above you and his family?
its simple cuzz he has no choice. I know my husband would rather go out to dinner with me then go out on the range. or go to his kids sports game then a meeting on base. military is not a job it is a life stile. when they say jump he keeps jumping till hes told to stop. when he has the choice hes always with his family.
Well, Tom, that would be because that's his JOB. I'm pretty sure that if your wife/girlfriend/whatever said "Hey honey, why don't you just skip work today so you can spend the day with me?" you would have to say no because your boss would give you hell for doing that.
My boyfriend is a Marine and if it's one thing I can't tolerate, it's complete ignorance when it comes to the military and the soldier's responsibilities. Believe me, if it was up to him, he would choose to spend as much time with me and his family as he could instead of going overseas to risk his life for millions of people he doesn't even know and most of whom have no support for him and his fellow soldiers, so I would keep that in mind the next time you decide to mouth off about the troops. After all, they fight so that you can continue to live in a country spout BS like that without being punished for your voicing opinion.
I swear, people like you piss me off and are the reason pages like this exist. Kudos to the author & God bless.
Well, Tom, that would be because that's his JOB. I'm pretty sure that if your wife/girlfriend/whatever said "Hey honey, why don't you just skip work today so you can spend the day with me?" you would have to say no because your boss would give you hell for doing that.
My boyfriend is a Marine and if it's one thing I can't tolerate, it's complete ignorance when it comes to the military and the soldier's responsibilities. Believe me, if it was up to him, he would choose to spend as much time with me and his family as he could instead of going overseas to risk his life for millions of people he doesn't even know and most of whom have no support for him and his fellow soldiers, so I would keep that in mind the next time you decide to mouth off about the troops. After all, they fight so that you can continue to live in a country where you can spout BS like that without being punished for voicing your opinion.
I swear, people like you piss me off and are the reason pages like this exist. Kudos to the author & God bless.
My husband doesn't put the military before me, but it is the nature of the job, a job that allows you to ask such a question.. thanks for playing!
Tom,
It'd be nice if you weren't such an easy troll to stomp away.
I have never met anyone in the military that puts his job before his wife and family.
Tom,
To be in the military is to protect his "wife and family", so I don't really see how that question applies.
My husband fights for "Toms" freedom…He is deploying to Iraq on Nov 12, for his second tour over there, I might add. Tom, my friend, tell me, please…honestly, can you say you fought against the people who attacked our country???
Liberal suckers…sorry for you!
So, "Tom" is one of those people we were just about…
They always say the silent ranks is the toughest job in the service. I believe that fully.
Being "just a girlfriend" entitles me to NOTHING, no information or anything…none of his belongings here to keep me less lonely, his mother gets the comfort of his clothes hanging in the closet and his room with all his stuff.
Complitely agree with the last one… I'm a girlfriend (by the way we live in different countries).And it is really incredibly hard..Because you have no any information and even have no right to get this information because you are oficially NOBODY to him….Well, you even don't know when he will return and everything you have is great hope to see him once again and you make life to continiou…
I hope Tome will never feel this….Respectfully to all militaryes and his close ppl
Here are my favorites… "Doesn't he realize how hard it is on you when he's away?" My response was yes, he does but it's harder on him.
"How can he do that to your children?" My response- how can he fight for my childrens right to grow up in a free country? I dont know how can your husband sit at home and let others decide the fate of your childrens nation? (I get nasty looks on that one)
"You let him do this?" Response- Well yeah, both of us would be doing it but we feel that one of us should stay home with the kids since they aren't allowed in combat zones.
Victoria, I love you for everything you just said!
Trust me, when the spouses are on deployment, besides the mission, family is always on their minds. Soldiers, Sailors, and Airmen do what they do for their famalies and their country.
I was one that would say some of those things. Now my husband is in basic training and I can begin to understand the reverse side.
Very nice list!!!!!
Soldier Hard
God Bless this country and our ability to have these conversations! I'll welcome my husband home with open arms knowing that he'll go back to the middle east again, but I make the most of the time we have together. The world wouldn't need soldiers if we all lived our lives this way! I pray for our new President everyday that he might find a better, even though I voted for the other guy! Steadfast and Loyal, HOOAH!!!
I am military wife and reading this list made both my husband and I laugh. I have found myself faced with these questions from people and thought to myself these people must be crazy to ask me such things. For you who don't understand, my husband has a job to do and does it very well. And all of his loved ones wait and pray for his save return. Yes it is hard on us but we support him in every way because we know he loves what he does and is honored to protect our and YOUR way of life.
GOD BLESS AMERICA AND ALL WHO DEFEND HER!!!!!
Hi,
This is great! And I hear it every week..
I'm from the Netherlands, and our community of militairy wives totally agrees with you! We all put it on our websites and hope it will help NOT to hear this so much..
Keep up! Greets from the Netherlands..!
Tom…if you still read any of these…you should be punched in the mouth! Obviously you dont understand the military at all and obviously no one close to you has served in the military. There are THOUSANDS of soldiers deployed every year to ensure safety and freedom for the United States. My husband is currently deployed and I am also in the Army and did a 15 month deployment previously. Do you think that military members enjoy leaving their families for a year? Do you think they enjoy not seeing their child born, or miss their first word, or the firt time they walk? THEY DONT ENJOY IT AT ALL!!! Do you think they enjoy being in a war zone on Christmas? OF COURSE NOT!!! But sacrafice is something that soldiers do. Instead of talking shit about the soldiers that are defending your freedom to say dumb shit, why dont you try SUPPORTING the troops!
I think there are some great points here, and the humor tops it off. Good for comedy! The one about the golf course and Afghanistan is my favorite.
As one who is not a military wife, but is deeply grateful for the sacrifices military families make day after day, year after year…please accept my apology on behalf of all the stupid people who have made stupid comments such as the ones listed.
I'm not sure if I've ever made a statement like that, but if I did it was out of genuine interest and concern, and certainly not meant to cause frustration, anger, resentment. How about a list of what people SHOULD say to military wives?
THANK YOU for all you do. I know my freedom, and that of my children, is being defended right now by brave men and women in uniform…and the families who support them.
As a military daughter, #3 was the most irksome for me to hear. My dad deployed to Iraq when I was 12, right at the start of the fighting there and he deployed to Afghanistan when I was 16. The best response I found for that was "Well, I don't know. He didn't get his Purple Heart in Iraq. That's from Afghanistan."
Hey!!! This list is just great!! I'm a 'brat'. Dad was in the Army and deployed. No spouse, but I also beleive this is an awesome list. I've even used some of those respones in defensive of some of my married military spouses! Once again list!!!
Canadian military spouses love this list as well. I live in a military community so I don't get alot of those questions or comments but when I go and visit my non military friends, I hear alot of this list. I want sooo much to refer them to this list.
my husband just left for his 1st tour 2 weeks ago, hes in afghanistan and i have had the statement made to me well he signed up for this… and i agree he did sign up for the marines but he didnt sign up to possibly die… my husband is sooo stubborn that he would fight tooth and nail to come home and see me and our son… there are sooo many ignorant arrogant bastards out there that run there mouths like its kewl and they dont know shit… my husband and many others are called baby killers, murderers and rapists and you know the crappy part is these are the people that our men/women are protecting, these are the people that our men/women are dying for and these people can give 2 flying fucks about the freedoms they have…. i really hate half the US population because they are the bleeding hearts and the jerk-offs that think its ok to say the shit they say…. i love and miss my husband alot and im counting down the days till he comes home, and honestly the sooner he gets home the better cuz i know he will keep me from beatin the piss out of some of these people that abuse their freedom
May I add 'What is verboten for a military wife to say to her spouse."
"Well – at least i wasn't over there somewhere killing people!"
Yes, I listened as a military wife spit this out at 'her man'. Yes i wanted to belt her but the pained look on her husband's face did not move her, so a face slap would have had little effect.
An aside – Read Doug Stanton's 'Horse Soldiers'. He writes documented events of just a little of what our wonderful, beautiful men encounter 'over there somewhere'.
Oh my goodness!! How could she say something like that?! I don't care how mad I am, I would never say that to my bf no matter what.
This list is great. There are so many people who just don't get it. Find more pet peeves and list of things to say and do to an army wife by clicking the link next to my photo.
yup, that about sums it up. I've only heard a couple of them personally, but I could totally see someone saying every single one of them and then some. I'm sure we could continue adding on to the list for years to come. Another personal favorite….has he killed anyone? Oh I'm so excited you've asked me the question that burns my heart everyday….none of your damn business.
I love this list. I was trying to find something to put of my site and i love this. I'm an army wife, and i hate these questions. i wish people would just relized that we don't like to answer them.
the worst comment I got was actually from someone who used to be in the military. On Veteran's day, he said to me, "Hopefully, your fiance never comes to visit me…. I work in the national cemetery" -
On the positive side, I have been talking to soldiers in airports and other public places and our conversations have been interrupted multiple times by people saying, simply, "Thank you for your service." They would say the same things to spouses if they could.
[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by ilovemytroops and Mike Francis, ILoveMyTroops Too!. ILoveMyTroops Too! said: RT @OregonianMike: Things NOT to say to a military spouse http://bit.ly/58FIZd [...]
Hello, Soldier Hard back here again! I will post this on my site this is great!!! I am currently on my 3rd deployment in my 6th months, another 6 months i am done! i just wanted to stop by and let ALL THE MILITARY WIVES and GIRL FRIENDS, that i made 3 songs dedicated for all of you, i know what you all go thru and its soooooo hard! no anyone can do it! so i offer you all to download and or listen to
1. The Military Wife
2. THe Military Wife Part 2 (NEW)
3. I Miss You Letter (NEW)
You can listen to these songs and download them FOR FREE at soldierhard.com or myspace.com/soldierhard1
I speak the truth and i tell the world what you women go thru!!!
your friend
Soldier Hard
US ARMY ARMOR CORPS
My dads military and if any one said #8 to me i would straight out punch them in the face.
fer real that would piss me off to no end.
Having read the comments posted I thought about the One who died on the Cross for the freedom of all human beings. He, and, and only He is worthy of praise and adoration for giving His all for humanity. When He died for our freedom, He did not kill any baby, any woman, any man, or destroy and family or government.
Is is to His scepter that I bow and kneel. I never hear of this from most quarters of who claim that they are fighting for our freedoms. When you kill because someone else has killed, you end up perpetuating the same crime. No where, in civility, has it been a requirement for one to take the life of another in order to live. I prefer the Army that I belong to; my weapon of warfare does not include guns, chemical and/or biological warfare; bombs, etc. Love conquers all. My Commander-in-Chief and His followers use the same weapon and it has NEVER failed.
If we were to compare notes, you will find that the men and women who engage in wars of conquest, and material gain, at the expense of tax payers return home (if alive) unable to reintegrate. It is an anomaly to spend time living and acting like an animal and then expect to shift gears to human normalcy.
It is a CHOICE that someone chooses to go and be trained to be a murderer/killer. You can stand up to your respective governments and say no to war.
Support our troops? Of course, we do through the taxes that we pay. We paid for the house, clothing, education, food, automobile, and furnishing in your homes; including the tampons and psychiatric treatment and counseling among other things. We have to live next to you knowing that you are potential time-bombs that can explode any minute.
It is not denigrate – it is to have a balance in a debatable subject. We reap what we sow. If we sow violence, we reap the same and the far-reaching consequences of the choices we make.
To charge another human being with the responsibility of my freedom is ludicrous and no one has that ability. My help comes from above.
Fiona.
Crocodile tears couldn’t be more contrived. The story of our soldiers is tragic. Yet the story of what we’ve done to Iraq is horrific and shameful. We try to act like a humanitarian regarding a relatively small block of humans while ignoring a substantially larger block of humans that has far greater harms being done to them.
I’m looking through the various religious doctrines to see where they state that only Americans deserve compassion and respect.
Chip and Chuck King
Fiona is a New Jersey liberal who doesn't care a thing about our troops. They would rather rail against the troops and their supposed actions in Iraq while keeping silent about the millions killed under the government we deposed. Chip and Chuck King (or "Fiona") are morons.
CJ,
I do not support governments that take the life of their subjects willy nilly….be they British, French, American, German, Korean, Japanese, Iraqi etc. One wrong does not justify another. I have made that clear so please do not misuderstand me.
Fiona
Jehovah's witness would be my guess.
Fiona,
I think I understand why you chose to make these comments on the site of the "wives" of the military. You are nothing but a bully to the innocent. There is never an excuse for violence, but if a soldier were to punch you in the face, I think you'd deserve it.
Danni,
People who cannot tolerate challenge, reason, etc are the ones who resort to violence. They resort to violence to gain what they would not otherwise gain through reason, dialogue, trade, etc.
If what they do is right, why then to they have trauma, sleepless nights, inability to fit in crowds, nightmares, tendency to violence, inability to stand the sounds of little children, etc?
It is appalling to have human beings caged in basements like wild animals because they cannot function in normal life; medicated day in and day out – a mere a existence and not life.
Hello Fiona
I read you little religious crusade and government philosopy. I am one of the soldiers you support by paying your taxes. I would like to thank you for the pay raise the soldiers recieved in Jan 2010. I think you have probably just pissed off all these wives this post is about. I love what I am doing for my country. So I guess I love being a murderer and killer. You should be ashamed of you self for posting such bullshit. I would love to be your neighbor. We would get along great. People like you who sit on their ass talking about sacrafic and never sacraficing anything. These are the ones who we are fighting for. Freedom Is Not Free. So keep paying your taxes. LOVE IT OR LEAVE IT.
The FUCINA FAMLIY
The FUCINA FAMILY,
If the use of the sword by the true Christians can be justified on any grounds, it would seem that Peter was justified in defending the Son of God who was soon to be crucified by a mob. Christ is the Christian's perfect pattern. As He lived, we are to live. It would be unthinkable that Christ and His chosen twelve should have joined the Roman army and followed the Raman eagle. Nor can we think that the people of God can live the Christian life when engaged in taking human life.
Believe me, I do not "sit on my ass talking about sacrifice and never sacrificing anything," as you claim. I have family whom I do not and will not support through bloodshed. I cannot imagine killing Iraqi girls and boys, Palestinian children, for a paycheck. That ham and cheesburger would spell blood to me and my conscience would not permit me to do so. The ketchup would represent the blood I shed.
As for your counsel to me to "keep paying taxes" – that I will do because Jesus said to vive to Ceasar that which is Ceasars. You are welcome to be my neighbor…I have no desire to kill you or your family; hopefully you have no desire to kill me and or my family. We would be peaceful neighbors who – loves your neighbor as you love yourself.
If you have benefited from ill-gotten material or gained any other form of substance through bloodshed, it is not too late to repent and ask Him to forgive you. He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteouness.
Peace be unto you and your family.
Hello respondents,
All human life is sacred be it a Palestinian or and Iraeli; American or Iraqi; Indian Or African. I wonder who gave anyone of the right to decide who should live or die. It is the same inconsistency where we abortion is condoned and subsidized by government (our taxes) – it is embryo profiling. One can choose to kill an unborn child because varied reason(s) e.g. not a girl, when they prefer a boy; not blue eyed when they want green…
To charge another human being with the responsibility for my freedom, liberty, is too much for any individual to bare. The very ones charged with this responsibility need it.
Pissed off? Yes, the truth has never been popular and of course anyone with blood on their hands and/or doorstep will find any plausible excuse for their actions.
I do not mean any disrespect, however, I cannot imagine how one can live with themselves knowing that they are supporting their family and themselves with blood money.
Violence begets violence; and one murder does not justify another murder. Yes, freedom is not free – it has already been purchased for all humanity. Why complain about another government allegedly killing it's people when our very government is doing the same? Are any better, then? It seems to me to be a hypocritical stance.
TY – Chip
Chip, I'll answer your questions.
"I wonder who gave anyone of the right to decide who should live or die." As a Soldier, the right to decide if someone lives or dies is given to my by the person I'm debating whether or not to kill. If a guy aims a weapon at me or my troops or my country, he has just given me the right to kill him. If he doesn't try to kill me, then he's given me the right let him live. It's not that difficult. I would ask who gave the lion or the tiger the right to kill that innocent gazelle? Humanity is no different. It's life and death, kill or be killed.
We disagree. One murder DOES justify the killing of another. If you simply let it happen, that person will just continue killing. By removing the threat, more lives are actually spared. The difference between our government "killing people" and other governments, is that we do it in the name of sparing the innocent civilians. You won't find the United States in ANY country purposely killing innocent people. So, we ARE better. Other countries kill their citizens to retain power and control. We kill to provide freedom and prosperity.
There is nothing hypocritical in that, but I doubt you happy-go-lucky hippies will ever see it that way. You just assume that people will just stop doing bad things if we turn our heads and pretend it's not happening.
Hi CJ
Soldiers know that war is anit-Christian. Napoleon, the greates soldier of modern times, recognized this distinctin between the kingdom of Christ and the kingdoms devoted to war. While meditating upon his misfortunes, when confined to the island of St. Helen, he said: "Alexander, Caesar, Charlemagne, and myself founded empires. But upon what did we rest the creation of our genius?–Upon FORCE. Jesus Christ alone founded His empire upon LOVE: and at this hour millions of men would die for Him." {The Bible and Men of Learning," by Matthews, p.342.
He, unlike modern day murderers, understood the relation of the kingdom of Christ to earlthy kingdsom which throught eh abmitions of men had drifted far from the principles of their Author. Christ taught peace; they teach war. His teaching stand in marked contrast tot he spirit of militarism of our time.
"From whence come wars and fightings among you? come they not hence, even of your lusts that that war in your members?" James 4:1
Lust is from Satan: we lust the oil from other nations; we lust for cheap labor; etc to support our families and thirst for control of others' conscience.
"But if ye have bitter envying and strife in your hearts, glory not, and lie not against the truth. This wisdom descendeth not from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish…The fruit of righteousness is sown in peace of them that make peace." James 3:14-18
I would like to humbly put it to you, and other readers, that Christ, the Prince of Peace, is our example. Did He bear arms and kill His fellow men?–Never!
"Even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us (all of us and therefore we do not need murderers in uniform to secure our liberty, freedom, and/or prosperity), leaving us an example, that ye should follow His steps: who did no sin, neither was guile found in His mouth: who when He was reviled, reviled not again; when He suffered, He threatened not; but committed Himself to Him that judgeth righteously." 1 Peter 2:21-23.
Thanks, and by the way, He died for ALL weather we acknowledge Him or not. That includes, Jews, Hindus, Muslims, Budhists etc. In a nutshell – mankind. I look forward to your response.
Look at the shelves of liquor, packets of cigarettes, etc…known substances that destroy human life; alters the mind/reasoning powers of the user and it causes death; marriage dissolution; domestic violence; deprives our nation of useful labor and longevity of life to mention but a few of the social ills. Yet, our very own government issues licences for the sale and distribution these commodities.
We then set police officers on patrol to keep law and order; respond to domestic violence; drunken driving…and we weigh down our legislative courts with cases that have been licenced by the same government. Is this not an anomaly?
I was doing missionary work in India where every single house erected is "blessed" with an innocent child's life and the its skull is placed at the foundation of the said house. Do we have any idea how many children are being sacrificed daily for such absurd sacrifices…and I do not see our military over there. Why the inconsistency?
None of our military warfare can be used safely anywhere without it spilling over to other borders. So, what we do to other nations, comes back to bite us. So all the ammunition, especially biological and chemical are sitting around dangerously and we live in constant fear. Money that could have been well invested for humanitarian purposes: food, clothing, education, health, shelter etc. But we were caught up in the arms race. Now what?
Chuck
FIONA,
First of all, FUCK YOU. Pardon my French. Secondly, my husband is a United States Marine, but even before that, one of the strongest Christian men you will ever meet. (Although, I hope you never meet him because most likely I will be with him, and I don't know that I could restrain from curbstomping your face.) He fights for GOD first and foremost, then for his family and his country. Without my husband and the rest of the United States military protecting YOUR freedom, you wouldn't be able to practice the "Christian" religion you claim to practice. I use the term "Christian" loosely because a true Christian would not come onto a forum of the suffering (military spouses) and create hateful and hurtful remarks. Maybe you should rethink your own faith instead of questioning that of those who allow you to freely practice your religion.
He is currently serving in Haiti helping the hundreds of thousands who were affected by the tragic earthquake that happened two months ago. Would you care to know what he is doing there? Guarding a MISSIONARY CAMP and handing out food to the hungry. Hmm…can you please explain to me how guarding God's house from thieves and feeding the hungry makes him a murderer/rapist/etc? We were married for three weeks before he was given 24 hours of notice that he was leaving to go. Did I want him to go? No. Did he want to leave his wife in the middle of our honeymoon? No. Did I support him? Absolutely.
Oh, and by the way, if you don't want to stand behind our troops, feel free to go stand in front of them. I'd much rather you be shot than my husband, and I'm sure every other military spouse agrees with me. PLEASE feel free to go take his place. I'd really appreciate it.
Thanks,
A Stronger Person Than You Will Ever Be
Proud Marine Wife,
Did you miss out on reading that a newly married spouse is not be sent out to war the first year of their marriage? Why did you allow them to ship your husband out three weeks of your marriage? If you knew and read your Scripture and stood firm for what you believe you would not have saluted 24 hours notice! It is your negligence to exercise your God-given right and therefore you should not seek undue sympathy here. Unless you don't even know what you believe.
It seems to me that you are more supportive of your human leaders than your God. I believe that Scripture teaches that when the mandates of man conflicts with that of God you/we had better choose to obey God rather than man. Take time to read the Scriptures and arm yourself with truth and justice will forever be on your side. That way you will not cry over a microwaved honeymoon.
You sound so angry over a decision you and your hubby made without proper counsel. There is no draft by the way, this is purely voluntary. Both of you still have the choice to quit.
I sincerely hope that you will find peace in truth according to the Bible and not bow to the whims of the government.
My strength comes from the Lord.
There is no choice to quit. Running away from a responsibility is cowardly. And what of all the wars waged in the name of God? The Crusades? Oh, and did you miss the entire Old Testament of your Bible?
FIONA,
First of all, F**K YOU. Pardon my French (although you might be speaking French if it weren't for our military). Secondly, my husband is a United States Marine, but even before that, one of the strongest Christian men you will ever meet. (Although, I hope you never meet him because most likely I will be with him, and I don't know that I could restrain from curbstomping your face.) He fights for GOD first and foremost, then for his family and his country. Without my husband and the rest of the United States military protecting YOUR freedom, you wouldn't be able to practice the "Christian" religion you claim to practice. I use the term "Christian" loosely because a true Christian would not come onto a forum of the suffering (military spouses) and create hateful and hurtful remarks. Maybe you should rethink your own faith instead of questioning that of those who allow you to freely practice your religion.
He is currently serving in Haiti helping the hundreds of thousands who were affected by the tragic earthquake that happened two months ago. Would you care to know what he is doing there? Guarding a MISSIONARY CAMP and handing out food to the hungry. Hmm…can you please explain to me how guarding God's house from thieves and feeding the hungry makes him a murderer/rapist/etc? We were married for three weeks before he was given 24 hours of notice that he was leaving to go. Did I want him to go? No. Did he want to leave his wife in the middle of our honeymoon? No. Did I support him? Absolutely.
Oh, and by the way, if you don't want to stand behind our troops, feel free to go stand in front of them. I'd much rather you be shot than my husband, and I'm sure every other military spouse agrees with me. PLEASE feel free to go take his place. I'd really appreciate it.
Thanks,
A Stronger Person Than You Will Ever Be
Proud Marine Wife,
I am saddened and quite appalled at your choice of language. When you say you don't know that you could restrain from "curbstomping my face" it goes to show the level of violence that is raging in you. Violence is never the answer when all we have been engaging in is a dialogue. Is this how you are trained/raised? Is it possible to have a dialogue without violence?
It seems to me that some people resort to violence to gain what they cannot otherwise receive through reason.
It would behoove us to go back to the beginning and review our history. We came from foreign lands and found the native Americans here. What did we do? Killed them, marginalised them, oppressed them, figured that their mode of worship was not good enough, etc. Violence and shedding of blood coupled with slavery and other inhumane deeds were perpetrated. This land is saturated with bloodshed and many have their hands stained with the blood of our fellow man. Even if it is inherited wealth, if it was gained unlawfully it is is still not right.
Proud Marine Wife, your husband or any other soldier for that matter cannot buy, defend my conscience. It is God given. It is my inalienable right from the Sovereign God of the Universe. Please forgive me if I sound hurtful/hateful…it is not my intent to disrespect or hurt anyone. Truth has never been popular and it always divides. We can agree to disagree in principle without having to resort to violence and unladylike language.
Let me share with you that my uncle serves as a surgeon (saving life) in the military; I have a nephew in the French military (spiritual counsellor); and two other members are flight engineers; None of these members bare arms. It is better known as conscientious objectors. Their loyalty is to God for the preservation of life which they consider sacred. None of them have killed anyone in their tenure in the military. I wish you could hear their testimony each time they have come close to death. Each time enemy combatants have put their weapons down for seeming strange reasons when they faced the. They have attributed it to the protection of angels. Their superiors have not fired them either and they are proud citizens.
So, what makes others so ready to kill/murder? You can answer that question the best way your conscience allows. Our pride, selfishness, arrogance, and covetousness will be our doom. God favored this country immensely and He poured out His heart in America. But we took this for granted and used it to oppress others. We shall reap what we have sown. God is never mocked. We claim to be a Christian nation but behave contrary to Christian principles and values.
I am a sinner, saved by grace through Christ. That is where my strength lies – Not in military power; not in economic stability; and yes, you are stronger than me. I would not dare compare myself to you. I couldn't take your husband's place because I cannot bare arms. I have no intention to kill anyone to support a family. i could not do that to people I love. I am sorry my conscience would torment me for the rest of my life and no medication from the VA would suffice.
Forgive me.
Fiona.
These are things that people say because they don't understand. It isn't to be ignorant.. it's usually your friends asking these questions – it's because they care about you. And sometimes there is nothing else to say but the things on this list.. it is human nature to ask those things.. I get asked all the time.. I just don't understand how people can get so mad about a person who doesn't understand asking questions or saying comments that are normal for curious people to ask..
You can disagree with me but I agree with not a military wife.. and I am one.
And Fiona – This whole world is a war between good and evil you should know that.. There has been war since the beginning and it will end in a battle.. You can hate the war all you want.. but never for a minute look down on those soldiers.. God is with them every step of their journey.
"God is with them every step of the their journey" Yes, including the recording angels so that on the day of judgement, there will be a record that cannot be controverted.
A loving God, as I know Him, does not allow men and women, for whom He has purchased with His precious blood to be treated as beasts; to be trained to be murderers/killers of women, babies, and men; to earn a living to support their families or themselves with blood money.
1. If it were ordained by God that men and women are to go to war and kill each other, is it any wonder that He leaves them to suffer from PTSD and the frills that come with it? That is hardly a divine purpose or will. War is something that we choose and relish for what we gain from it….human carnage and lust for blood.
2. Is anyone in here familiar with the scripture that says, that if God does not keep the city/house the watchman stays up for nothing? It is God who protects and shields. No human being is capable of providing it.
3. How can we go and kill Iraqi women and children and come back to our own and sit around like everything is fine? I have been counseling a vet for 3+ years and he cannot get over the screams of children he blew up in a village – an abandoned village without grown men except for women, the elderly, and children residing there with a couple of domestic animals.
4. How is it that there are those who will not bare arms because of conscience? It means that there are those whose consciences are so seared with evil that they have no qualms to kill/murder; they are not cowards either.
5. Killing because another has killed only makes identical murderers and that is why this world is so full of sorrow and evil. I wonder what we shall say on the judgement day. Or perhaps it will be, "Lord, I killed XYZ for our freedom and liberty". I can almost hear Him respond, I purchased everyone's freedom and liberty and there is no command from Me to you to go and kill others to save anyone.
We can list our laundry of excuses, but it will not hold water in the final audit which is very soon. We will not plead honeymoons, material gain, and weapons proliferation on that day.
He says, "Thou shalt not kill" period. He does not say thou shalt not kill but do so in self-defense; or to liberate; or for conquest. We can always cook up reasons to justify the desires of our evil inclinations.
He was guarding a Missionary Camp. Hmmmm do you suppose your husband is stronger than the angels of God who can smite the enemy with one blow – and I am talking one angel, not even a host of them. Read your scriptures carefully, I am not trying to be fascitious.
I repeat, i cannot imagine how anyone can kill another human being to support their family and bravely say it's OK. It is BLOOD money, and it has never been OK. Maybe we ought to have a chat with the disciple who betrayed Christ for money – blood money.
It would behoove us as Americans to repent and ask God for forgiveness for the evils we have committed against humanity. That goes for the Brits as well…monarchy my foot! I love my life(it is sacred) and the lives of my fellow human beings (I don't want anyone taking their lives).
War does not occur in a vacuum. It is orchestrated by men. Men make weapons of war,not war making weapons. We make them with intentions to use them. Enough already, time to scurry off to seek the lost.
Adieu.
PTSD is not just from war. You can have PTSD from a car accident.
Read the Old Testament. There are plenty of instances of God sending men into battle.
You say you could not kill with a clear conscience. This is why our spouses are there and you are not.
I concur with the quest to preserve life. Life is sacred and should not be taken by anyone but God. He alone is the give and the taker. Our motives are so laced with evil and self that we cannot impartially execute justice.
God said we should love our enemies and pray for those that despitefully use us. That does not leave room for ANY excuse to kill/murder others. Jesus was on earth, physically, for 33.5 years and He never killed or murdered anyone. And He is our example….so, how can you do it?
If you have done it in ignorance, there is still hope to repent and turn your life around. He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from ALL unrighteousness. That means even the unrighteous act of killing others. However, if you remain stubborn, you will face the consequences.
By the way, you volunteer to kill, no one has compelled you to kill. The government is not our conscience, we must choose to obey God rather than man when it comes to matters of conscience. Unless one has sold their conscience to the enemy of souls, then I rest my case.
Brian.
The 6th commandment of God's moral law reads, "Thou shalt not kill." To kill is to take life. The soldier by profession is a practical violator of this precept.
God has called us to peace and the weapons of our warfare are not carnal (1 Cor. 7:15; 2 Cor. 10:4. The gospel permits us to use no weapons but the "sword of the Spirit."
Our kingdom is not of thiw world. Said Christ to Pilate, "If My kingdom were of this world, then would My servants fight" John 18:36. This is most indisputable evidence that Christians have nothing to do with carnal instruments(guns, bio/chem warfare, bombs, nuclear, etc) of war.
We are commanded to love even our enemies. "But I say unto you, "says the Saviour, "LOve your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you and persecute you." Matt. 5:44. Do we fulfill this command when we blow the brains out of women, children, families with our weapons of mass destruction, or server their limbs, or rape them? "If any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is not of His." Rom 8:9.
Our work is the same as our Master's, who once said, "The Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to SAVE (emphasis mine) them." Luke 9:56. If God's Spirit sends us to save men, does not some other manner of spirit send us to DESTROY them? It would be nice to examine ourselves to know what manner of spirit we are of.
"Resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on the right cheek, turn to him the other also." Matt. 5:39. That is, we had better turn the other cheek than to smite them back again. Could this scripture be obeyed on the battlefied? Christ said to Peter, as he struck the high priest's servant, "Put up (away) again thy sword." Matt 26:52. If the Saviour (our Creator) commanded the apostle to "put up" the sword, certainly His followers have NO right to take it.
Then let those who are of the world (murderers) fight, but as for us, let us pray.
Fiona
Who left the crazy church lady out!!!!!!!1
Hi Donna,
I guess the angels let her out…lol. Nevertheless, she seems to have a point. I do not see anyone disputing her position with facts.
Thanks for posting this. I'm an army wife, and I have read this several times and think its great. My husband is deployed on his 3rd tour to Iraq. I'm just thankful I'm not pregnant this time. I gave birth to both of our children during his last 2 deployments. It is absolutely absurd the things people come up with to ask. I was asked at one point if I was glad he wouldnt be home for the birth of our first child. Then the same person told me on his second deployment that it should'nt be hard to give birth without him because I had already done it once. Seriously? Being away from them is hard enough, but to go through other things such as birth, death, etc. Yes it's hard, no matter how many times you do it.
Fiona and family,
The following excerpt are not my words, but when I saw the interesting exchanges going on regarding Scripture and the Men and Women who Serve… well, these words seemed to fit how I felt:
"Many people make the mistake of reading what the Bible says in Exodus 20:13, “You shall not kill,†and then seeking to apply this command to war. However, the Hebrew word literally means “the intentional, premeditated killing of another person with malice; murder.†God often ordered the Israelites to go to war with other nations (1 Samuel 15:3; Joshua 4:13). God ordered the death penalty for numerous crimes (Exodus 21:12, 15; 22:19; Leviticus 20:11). So, God is not against killing in all circumstances, but only murder. War is never a good thing, but sometimes it is a necessary thing. In a world filled with sinful people (Romans 3:10-18), war is inevitable. Sometimes the only way to keep sinful people from doing great harm to the innocent is by going to war."
– gotquestions....r-bible.html
It seems that one very real problem with both your numerous and unwanted posts to these fine people is that you have no sense of who your audience is. You exist within a very small sub-sect of mainstream Christianity which has DECIDED to IGNORE vast portions of the Holy Bible and pick out only what you choose in order to justify your position towards total pacifism. I personally hold to a Unitarian stance and have no issue with your actual beliefs; but do question your motives here.
Why would you proselytize your ideologies to these women unless you were trying to upset their understanding of life and the universe in hopes of unhinging their world views; causing personal anguish and suffering? I wonder; how would Jesus view your goals here? Have YOU read the Bible lately, or do you just stick with what suits you?
"And when ye pray, ye shall not be as the hypocrites: for they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have received their reward. 6:6But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thine inner chamber, and having shut thy door, pray to thy Father who is in secret, and thy Father who seeth in secret shall recompense thee. 6:7And in praying use not vain repetitions, as the Gentiles do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking. 6:8Be not therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him."
- Matthew 6:5
I like to use this quote from the Bible as a statement towards my fellow Faithful, such as yourselves, that proselytize your views to attack the lives of others is just as bad as praying in public for all to see that you're doing it! When WE spread the word of GOD we do so not as a weapon to attack others – for that is the same kind of unhealthy negative conflict mongering mentality that you so hypocritically pursue, but we do so to the hearts of those OPEN to our views and who wish to hear the WORD OF GOD, and not our interpretations or half-presentations of His Word.
In short, I'm very concerned that you are nothing more than a bunch of half-ass Bible Scholars trying to brow-beat THE FAMILIES of those you harbor resentment towards in life.
You're not very neighborly.
You're not very realistic or fully understanding of the topic you have chosen.
You're definitely not being good Christians trying to sow seeds of discord, grief, and guilt.
God decrees all Wars, all Suffering, and ALL OF HISTORY, whether they be JUST, CONVENIENT, EVIL or GOOD, or upto your standards of how other men should live.
And please, before you quote any more of Jesus' words understand that I am not here to judge your views – I actually admire those who take to true and complete pacifism… I only challenge you to live upto those views and to stop trying to incite the mental and moral anguish of others just to cause chaos in the lives of those who have angered you (which apparently the soldiers have, per your earlier post).
We must all find God in our own hearts as individuals. No one of us can claim to KNOW God's Truth; we can only try to live in His world and abide His plan – including the darker parts.
God Bless, and please forgive my harsh tones at times, words can be like bullets on a battlefield; don't you agree?
Reverend Jay Voch
Reverend Jay Voch,
I wonder what is "reverend" about you…but that is not the point. Just stick to the scriptures which you seem to have difficulty in comprehending. Spiritual things are spiritually discerned.
Truth, is bitter like a pill if when taken with humility,heals the sorest wound. Please note that during the theocratic era God ordered killing through war. We do not live in that dispensation and no individual/government has the right to take human life. He is the only discerner of human hearts. Every human being deserves an opportunity to know God and the gospel of peace. Do our soldiers pray with/for the babies, mothers, fathers before they blow them up? If it is "necessary" to kill them then they (soldiers) should not have nightmares; screaming voices of innocent babies; horrific howlings of mothers; and orphans left behind; they should not drown their conscience with alchohol and other drugs to suppress the memories. Or do you suggest that God is remiss in wiping it out of their memory? In essence, you are saying that God allows/orders them to go and kill others and then lets the soldiers suffer from the consequences of doing an alleged good deed. Preposterous indeed!
This is akin to some religious body that teach that one must remain celibate in order to be a priest. God will not give you an organ for good use and then punish you for using it. We now see how perverted their actions are – the colossal damage in erroneous and unbiblical teaching!
The blood of these people are on our hands and those of us who benefit from their blood are guilty. May we have the sense to repent and seek forgiveness before it is too late. You only managed to translate in Hebrew,….why not in Aramaic or Greek? Evil is evil in whichever language you choose to express yourself.
44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; 45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
Pray for spiritual discernment and for peace through dialogue and love and not war.
Mitchell
Understand that there is no theocracy today. In the theocratic system, it is assumed that what God prohibits is harmful to individuals and society, and disobedience of God’s laws affects all in that society. Also, in the theocratic nation (a) sin is equated with crime, (b) morality is legally enforced, and (c) punishments (e.g., capital punishment) are divinely sanctioned. Today, we are no longer under a theocratic rule and therefore cannot always apply OT theocratic laws to our political institutions!
So, what are we to do? Learn from Bible biographies and history. I am giving you Scripture to empower you to know from God and not from me..I am not making these things up as I breathe. “For whatever things were written before were written for our learning, that we through the patience and comfort of the Scriptures might have hope.†(Rom 15:4) See also (1 Cor. 10:6, 11) I would also counsel you to be careful how you interpret Bible characters. Note the following guidelines:
Follow Bible characters when they were doing right; but avoid their mistakes when they were doing wrong. The fact that the Bible reports and event does not mean the Bible approves it…e.g. Lot and his daughters; Moses’ murder of the Egyptian.“Not all practices described by Scripture are thereby endorsed by Scripture as moral ideals…The precepts and commands of Scripture have priority over the narrative passages in discerning the moral law.â€
“Divine approval of an individual in one aspect or area of his life does not entail and must not be extended to mean that there a divine approval of that individual in all aspects of his character or conduct.â€; Example: Rahab’s lying (Joshua 2:1-14; 6:25). Did God commend her lie or her faith? (Heb 11:31; James 2:25) I want to humbly put it to you that the only prescriptive Human Example set forth in Scripture is Jesus Christ. He alone lived without sin. The clearest revelation of God’s will is in the Moral Law, the Ten Commandments. This is a transcript of His character and the standard of judgment. It is a universal law that transcends culture and place.
Rationalization is common today – coming up with good reason for bad actions. It is applying a good purpose to something that is inherently wrong. The Bible condemns rationalization when it says: “there is a way that seems right to a man but the end thereof are the ways of death†(Prov. 16:25). Always rule out wrong options. We must not accept options that are contrary to God’s will. Determine to do the right thing and believe that the Lord will show you what to do. Let me posit two moral dilemmas for your action: (1) A terrorist holds your only child hostage at the point of a loaded-gun, demanding to have sex with you before your child is freed. Is it right to have sex with the terrorist to save your child’s life? (2) Your 12-year-old daughter has been raped by an adult-relative and she becomes pregnant. According to psychologists your daughter is not in a stable mental and emotional health to carry the pregnancy to full-term. Your family doctor also indicates that even if she survives the trauma of the pregnancy, the baby that will be born will most-likely be severely deformed. Is it right, under these circumstances, for your 12-year-old victim of incestuous-rape to have an abortion?
Please support your answer with scripture. Opinions are like noses, everyone has one. Let us rely on wisdom from God because we are all sinners.
Fiona
An international war-tribunal has established beyond reasonable doubts tht the dictators Adolf Hilter, Idi Amin, Saddam Hussein, and others are guilty of genocide (ie the deliberate and systematic murder of millions of people belonging to some ethnic groups and races). As punishment for their crimes against humanity they have been sentenced to face capital punishment. Would you approve as morally right the execution of these mass-murderers? Who financed them, and who gave them shelter? Are we guilty by association? Are we guilty by ommission/commission? Some of these crimes took place before I was conceived but they are heinous enough to make me wonder that they are still in practice today….this century…a time when we claim to be enlightened, intelligent, and loving.
We are stubborn and full of unsanctified pride. The corruption of an unsanctified heart, and an unwillingness to submit to the will of God is our fault. We will jump at the blink of an eye and say, "America is a Christian nation founded on Christian principles and values." This is voiced only when it suits the occassion. Look at the statistics of abortion; divorce; domestic and foreign murders; rape; theft; immorality at the highest level in office; bribery in our judicial and legislative ranks! How then do we measure values and principles? Is our nation great because it bullies other nations? A nation is GREAT only as its members the fear and admonition of God.
Dear Mitchell,
It appears that it is becoming the time for an old and worn out circular argument to ensue. However, as I was intent on replying to Fiona with the desire to illicit a response, then I shall respectfully accept a discussion with you as well – in for a penny, in for a pound!
To you I will put forth two considerations: first, a response to your notion of the so-called "Theocratic Era" and its relevance to our modern conflicts and lifestyles, and second, a note on the prayers of our soldiers that do take place.
As the age of theocracy is long over I assume your argument is that we no longer live under divine direction, and are therefor more inclined to immoral action and living? This is not a wise direction to pursue, as both in scripture and ancient and recent history we have countless examples of the abuses of organized religions in charge of city-states and empires. Indeed, some of the most terrible conflicts in human history were undertaken in the name of divine right as ordered by theocratic rulers.
When has there been a time when religion married power and bred contentment, rightness, righteousness, and peace? Religion is just another form of government – one might argue that it was THE first form of government as it allowed the organization of populations into labor castes bound by common law empowered by superstitions which served to rationalize the mysteries of the world to ancient peoples. Why then, did you chose to even remark on the Theocratic Age when the vast majority of history's genocides and great human atrocities were committed in the name of theocratic rule?
Please remember that all governments and organizations of power are creations of man, not God, and are therefor fated to share human failings. The Theocratic Age did not give pass for men to do unto others more or less than they can or should do now. Show me, please, where it is written that a nation ruled directly by a church is without sin and acts only towards God's desires and not the desires of the men who rule within?
The discussion here is about War. It would be wrong of any man to condone war, however, we do not condone the wolf who would stalk our cattle either, do we? Instead we seek out predators who would bring harm to that which belongs to us and our communities. The Theocratic Age has no place in how we view our actions today, for nothing of the worlds dangers – nor the dangers of covetous or evil men – has changed since that time.
God has decreed war throughout human history, and if war was sought without His favor then those who orchestrated such evils will be judged. Equally so, the motives of each individual man who goes to war will be judged, but judgment is His alone. We live in a world of men, and conflict cannot be avoided by simply deciding it isn't morally convenient to fight. What is the difference between suicide and letting someone kill you? ((Please don't bring up Jesus, because unless you talk to God directly as he did, and get His permission or order to do so, then Jesus is not a relevant counter to this point.))
That said, faith and goodness are universal, without boundaries, and the only dedications God has ever really asked for. I know of no Christian, Jew, or Muslim who questions the existence of the soul, the power of empathy, and the belief that we live our lives guided by God's Will. Why then do you assume our soldiers do not pray for the innocent who live within war zones when so many of our people over there are Christians? Do you imagine that our military maintains Chaplains to help with paperwork, or only to attend the dead? Please look into the statistics within our fairly conservative and traditionalist military, they are predominantly Christian. The morals and ethics of warfare are a constant question on the minds of those who serve; that is why they are good at what they do.
Now, do we have evil men within our military – undoubtedly. Has our government pursued evil acts – undoubtedly. However, as said before, He will judge those who orchestrate evil, and He will judge those who pursue wrongdoings for their own sake. I hope you meet more of our soldiers before you pass any final and unflinching judgments upon them, for each does serve his own conscience, and there are an unbelievably small amount of soldiers in our military who wear the mark of "baby-killer" or "rapist".
It is interesting how many figures in the old testament heard the words of God spoken unto them who also engaged in war, and yet God's message was almost never concerned with a ban of war (and ifso, it was always a particular war), but usually other moral or situational quandaries. In short, the resources that we have that tell us of the age when God spoke through his only son, through his angels and prophets, and through direct action exist with striking agreement between Catholic, Jew, and Muslim alike. In the sum of all of those sources God does not decry war nor self defense nor upholding capital punishment as a whole, only ever did he argue particular events. He instead laid forth instructions to create a just world with order, morals, and choices where conflict is sometimes necessary. And many, many of our soldiers are faithful, pray for the innocent, and carry with them humble origins and desires only to see the next day and go home.
To assume the worst of our those brave enough to risk everything they have to do what they believe is right is somewhat moronic. There will always be evil men within any organization of power or endeavor to change the course of history; that does not mean that those organizations nor goals are themselves evil.
Reverend Jay Voch
1. It appears that it is becoming the time for an old and worn out circular argument to ensue. However, as I was intent on replying to Fiona with the desire to illicit a response, then I shall respectfully accept a discussion with you as well – in for a penny, in for a pound!
To you I will put forth two considerations: first, a response to your notion of the so-called "Theocratic Era" and its relevance to our modern conflicts and lifestyles, and second, a note on the prayers of our soldiers that do take place.
As the age of theocracy is long over I assume your argument is that we no longer live under divine direction, and are therefore more inclined to immoral action and living? This is not a wise direction to pursue, as both in scripture and ancient and recent history we have countless examples of the abuses of organized religions in charge of city-states and empires. Indeed, some of the most terrible conflicts in human history were undertaken in the name of divine right as ordered by theocratic rulers.
When has there been a time when religion married power and bred contentment, rightness, righteousness, and peace? Religion is just another form of government – one might argue that it was THE first form of government as it allowed the organization of populations into labor castes bound by common law empowered by superstitions which served to rationalize the mysteries of the world to ancient peoples. Why then, did you chose to even remark on the Theocratic Age when the vast majority of history's genocides and great human atrocities were committed in the name of theocratic rule?
The genocides and human atrocities though committed in the name of God does not make it right. Who has sent them to commit these atrocities? Definitely not God. There was always a prophet (e.g. Samuel was sent to instruct Saul); who has sent us into Iraq, Afghanistan etc? Yes, religion is a form of government only if its governance is in harmony with God’s law. Not despot/tyrant should rise up willy-nilly and claim God sent them as we saw in Hitler – very unbiblical. Yet, many people(s) benefited from the holocaust. Gold that was pulled out of the Jewish people’s teeth could very well be the same jewellery adorned on fingers and ears today. Wars of conquest and to enslave and compromise one’s conscience!
Please remember that all governments and organizations of power are creations of man, not God, and are therefor fated to share human failings. The Theocratic Age did not give pass for men to do unto others more or less than they can or should do now. Show me, please, where it is written that a nation ruled directly by a church is without sin and acts only towards God's desires and not the desires of the men who rule within?
Have you read the leadership under Joshua? If not, take time to read it – the answer lies therein
Solomon was OK until he started to deviate from divine rule. The same goes for Johiachim etc.
The discussion here is about War. It would be wrong of any man to condone war, however, we do not condone the wolf who would stalk our cattle either, do we? Instead we seek out predators who would bring harm to that which belongs to us and our communities. The Theocratic Age has no place in how we view our actions today, for nothing of the worlds dangers – nor the dangers of covetous or evil men – has changed since that time.
Does your argument give us reason to take matters into our hands contrary to divine law? Are you suggesting that God has changed? I though He is same yesterday, today, and forever…He changes not!
God has decreed war throughout human history, and if war was sought without His favor then those who orchestrated such evils will be judged. Equally so, the motives of each individual man who goes to war will be judged, but judgment is His alone. We live in a world of men, and conflict cannot be avoided by simply deciding it isn't morally convenient to fight. What is the difference between suicide and letting someone kill you? ((Please don't bring up Jesus, because unless you talk to God directly as he did, and get His permission or order to do so, then Jesus is not a relevant counter to this point.))
Taking life is all inclusive whether one commits suicide or take someone’s life….life (mine included) does not cease to be sacred just because one chooses to take it…the injunction still stands….â€thou shalt not killâ€. Neither of us would know that to kill in/out of war is prohibited if God (our Creator) did not say so. The standard of our governance as humans is derived from Scripture and the Author of the Scriptures is God.
That said, faith and goodness are universal, without boundaries, and the only dedications God has ever really asked for. I know of no Christian, Jew, or Muslim who questions the existence of the soul, the power of empathy, and the belief that we live our lives guided by God's Will. Why then do you assume our soldiers do not pray for the innocent who live within war zones when so many of our people over there are Christians? Do you imagine that our military maintains Chaplains to help with paperwork, or only to attend the dead? Please look into the statistics within our fairly conservative and traditionalist military, they are predominantly Christian. The morals and ethics of warfare are a constant question on the minds of those who serve; that is why they are good at what they do.
Voch, even devils pray. The fact that one prays does not mean that their prayer is sanctioned by God. I know of many who pray that they do not get caught while they are on their way to steal; some decry the evils of liquor on their way to a pub. Does that make their deeds legitimate just because they prayed? Balaam loved money and he wanted to curse Israel for at a fee? He even feigned that he would pray to God to achieve his pernicious goal. When Balaam arrived in Moab, he was greeted by King Balak. Together, they offered sacrifices of bulls and rams in order to secure backing from the spirit world for the curse of Israel. However, the Lord intervened and each time Balaam prophesied, he pronounced a blessing on Israel instead of a curse. After three attempts from three different locations, Balaam was able only to pronounce blessing on Israel and not a curse. Balak was upset, and Balaam was prevented from earning his handsome fee for divination.
Now, do we have evil men within our military – undoubtedly. Has our government pursued evil acts – undoubtedly. However, as said before, He will judge those who orchestrate evil, and He will judge those who pursue wrongdoings for their own sake. I hope you meet more of our soldiers before you pass any final and unflinching judgments upon them, for each does serve his own conscience, and there are an unbelievably small amount of soldiers in our military who wear the mark of "baby-killer" or "rapist".
I am not a mind-reader. I can only draw conclusion based upon ones actions (fruits of their character) through the prism of Scripture. Why would our soldiers in our military and elsewhere not wear the mark of “baby-killer†or “rapists†when they leave behind mutilated babies sprawled on the desert or their limbs blown to pieces? Are you suggesting that because, in your estimation, “there are an unbelievably small amount†that it is OK? How many is small enough for your conscience to sanction murder and excuse such barbaric acts?
It is interesting how many figures in the old testament heard the words of God spoken unto them who also engaged in war, and yet God's message was almost never concerned with a ban of war (and ifso, it was always a particular war), but usually other moral or situational quandaries. In short, the resources that we have that tell us of the age when God spoke through his only son, through his angels and prophets, and through direct action exist with striking agreement between Catholic, Jew, and Muslim alike. In the sum of all of those sources God does not decry war nor self defense nor upholding capital punishment as a whole, only ever did he argue particular events. He instead laid forth instructions to create a just world with order, morals, and choices where conflict is sometimes necessary. And many, many of our soldiers are faithful, pray for the innocent, and carry with them humble origins and desires only to see the next day and go home.
God does not decry war? If that is true, then why are we fighting the Jihadist/Muslims? You brought out a very valid point that Fiona has already responded. I also noted that the pity-partiers are so silent and are unable to defend their stand. I am inclined to believe they do not know any better. When sin is committed in ignorance, God winks at the sin. However, when one knows to do right and yet they continue in sin, there is no excuse. Take for instance that spouse who claimed that she is “sexually deprived because of us†and that is why she drinks bottles of wine… We are not called to violate one/any principle to keep another; they are many military wives who sit around and paint their nails, faces and lips at the expense of bloodshed in war. Of course they will need to drink to soothe their conscience or hide from facing the reality of their deeds. Are we not counseled not to drink alcohol because of its effects – how then would a mother respond to the care of the children they are allegedly watching while their spouse is at war? The consumption must be high enough to deaden the realities of their problem(s). There are many women who are walking the same steps Bathsheba took while Uriah was at war…some are running around with men who are not even kings (not that it makes it right).
To assume the worst of our those brave enough to risk everything they have to do what they believe is right is somewhat moronic. There will always be evil men within any organization of power or endeavor to change the course of history; that does not mean that those organizations nor goals are themselves evil.
Organizations do not exist in a vacuum. They are formed by men….if they do any good, then they are of God; if they are of evil, they are of Satan.
Fiona,
When did you decide to create guidelines on how to interpret the bible? – "… [I] am giving you Scripture to empower you to know from God and not from me..I am not making these things up as I breathe.." then, "I would also counsel you to be careful how you interpret Bible characters. Note the following guidelines:
"Follow Bible characters when they were doing right; but avoid their mistakes when they were doing wrong. The fact that the Bible reports and event does not mean the Bible approves it…e.g. Lot and his daughters; Moses’ murder of the Egyptian.“Not all practices described by Scripture are thereby endorsed by Scripture as moral ideals…The precepts and commands of Scripture have priority over the narrative passages in discerning the moral law.â€
"The precepts and commands of Scripture have priority over the narrative passages in discerning the moral law…" So, you do accept that much of Religion has been the interpretation of so-called bible stories? What then, Commands and Scriptures (outside of your so-called narrative passages) proclaim war in all its forms and for any purpose to be against God's Law? I have already made my point regarding the commandment "Thou Shall Not Kill" as a poor translation of the Hebrew "Thou Shall Not Murder", so what Commands and Scriptures actually decry war to be outside of His Law? Please, as you seem very astute with scripture, do educate as this is a crucial point to your thesis.
You have asked me a number of vulgar scenario-based quandaries with the desire that I respond only using scripture and not personal bias, whereas your entire understanding of Christianity is founded in uncompromising pacifism – which has never been a founding principal advocated in the bible; in short, you pursue your bias using selective scripture to back you up but do not wish the same in response?.. Why?
I challenged you earlier to live by the pacifistic views you hold and to stop pursuing the suffering of military spouses, you did not reply to that concern… Why?
You wish us to engage in a clash of chapter and verse like swords in an epic battle but do not regard yourself as a combatant trying to harm others or as someone 'fighting' to change opinions… Why (and how)?
Finally, ".. a nation is GREAT only if it fears the admonition of God." What nation on Earth and in all of man's collective history has ever achieved such a thing? There is no time in the course of human civilization when bribery and immorality did not rule government, we just have Internet/Radio/Newspapers/TV's now to know about it. There are no 'good' governments, only good people. One cannot attack a 'type' of person or a group of people as a whole, for you are only acting to judge individuals you could not possibly know; and therefor condemn them to all who would hear you. You stand at the mountain top screaming into the crowd the evils of others and the purity of your own cause; what does that sound like to you?
Pacifism is the act of not pursuing the suffering of others; either physical or emotional. A pacifist never attacks. What then do we make of the wolf dressed like a lamb?
Reverend Jay Voch
Jay Voch
The Bible’s discussion of “conscience†is enlightening. It urges us to do our best to “maintain a clear conscience†before God (Acts 24:16). It also speaks of different kinds of consciences; that conscience can be “good†(Acts 23:1; 1 Tim 1:19), “evil†(Heb 10:22; cf 9:14), “seared†(1 Tim 4:1-4), “weak (1 Cor 8:9-12), or “defiled†(Titus 1:15). Since the human heart is very deceptive, it is important to be sure that one’s conscience has been shaped by Scripture, not by unexamined secular culture or ecclesiastical tradition. Therefore, conscience is never an independent authority for knowledge. A true conscience is one which knows with God—i.e. one which is in agreement with God and His Word, as it is led by the Holy Spirit. (Rom 9:1).
It is not enough for a man to think himself safe in following the dictates of his conscience. The question to be settled is, Is the conscience in harmony with the Word of God. Thus the mind will be established, strengthened, and settled. Otherwise, it cannot safely be followed, for it will deceive.
What then should we do when two or more individuals all claim the Spirit’s guidance in their contradictory understanding the Word? In other words, how can we avoid the temptation of invoking the name of the Spirit to justify our questionable reinterpretation of Scripture?
The treacherous results of freedom criers can be seen in the erosion of Truth as observed in every God centered movement/decision. These freedom cries are based upon the fundamental error that freedom will lead to Truth, while Christ clearly declares that the reverse is true: Truth will lead to freedom.
Relativism
It has become more and more fashionable to preach the truth in a comparative, or relative sense. The concept relativism is deeply embedded within the issues of situational ethics. The concept of situational ethics declares that the situation is the arbiter of right and truth. Therefore there are no universal laws, no principles that apply to every individual in every circumstance. This philosophy of situational ethics gained tremendous impetus in the 50’s and 60’s. Tragically, through history, most people have responded accordingly to circumstances rather than to the universal law of God. Example: “…none of the Ten Commandments represents a normative principle for human conduct which is intrinsically valid or universally obliging, regardless of the circumstances. E.g. in some situations, that is the right thing to do;’ in other situations, respect for the property of others is the right way to act.†Prof. Fletcher (Situational Ethics Bethany Fellowship Inc., 1972
Montgomery: As to the specific questions, ‘Must one never lied? Must one never kill a tyrant? Must one never be an instrument in an abortion?’, the answer is, in terms of what is right: ‘No, one must not tell lies; one must not kill other people; one must not abort.’ Now, if you’re saying, will you then, under no circumstances do these things?’ My answer to this is the same answer that Doctor May gave: ‘It may be that I am forced to do this, but if so, I am still committing wrong’ (Situational Ethics Bethany Fellowship Inc., 1972) pg. 50, 51.
In essence, Fletcher, agrees that we may sometimes have to break God’s law. Some say it is wrong to break the law, while others say it is morally good to break the law if circumstances dictate that to be the best (or least unacceptable) behavior. That’s what erring humans say but God says, “There hath no temptation (test or trial) taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted (tested or tried) above that ye are able (above your endurance); but will with the temptation (test/trial) make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it. (1 cor. 10:13) Here we see that God has promised an entirely different answer for the man whose faith and trust is in Him. Whereas the secularist and the atheist may have to resort to all sorts of deception and deviousness to interpret and handle difficult situations, the same is not true of the followers of God. There is no circumstance by which it becomes necessary for the Christian to break the inviolate moral law of God. God does not permit the Christian to be placed in a “no win†situation. This, however, does not mean that “impossible†situations will not arise, but God is a God of the impossible. Here is a case in point:
In response to your claim that I hold pacifistic views
Some years ago I heard a most moving story of woman who, in 1972 in East Germany, made a supreme decision to obey God’s law. She refused to send her 8-year old daughter to school on Sabbath (according to the 4th commandment). The authorities, after persuasion failed, informed her that if she persisted in this action, her daughter would be taken where she would be forced to attend school on the Sabbath. The faithful woman prayed that somehow God would overrule and her daughter would not be taken away, but the day came when the authorities removed the daughter. Situational ethics would have dictated that the mother, send her daughter to school and that she do everything she could to teach her of the sanctity of the Sabbath. But this women did not allow room for compromise.
One might ask, “Why did not God answer such a prayer?†The answer soon became apparent. In good communist fashion, notices were placed around the village declaring this lady to be an unfit mother and asserting this “fact†as the reason why the daughter had been removed from the mother’s care. When the villages read this claim, they rose up in open revolt against their communist leaders. They declared that she was not an unfit mother, but one of the finest mothers in the village and they demanded that the daughter be sent back. When the officials refused this demand the villagers did the unthinkable—they declared that there would be no more work in the village until the daughter was returned to her mother. Eventually under pressure, the daughter was returned. How precious must have been 1 Corinthians 10:13 to this mother! God gave her a supreme test and she passed the test.
But today the values of so many of us have changed to the point that compromise has become the order of the day. God gave a wonderful ministry of witness through this woman to every member of the village in which she lived. Thus the pervading message heard is a message of “sin and live†or sin to liveâ€. Let no one say, I cannot remedy my defects of character. If you come to this decision, you will certainly fail of obtaining eternal life. The problem with situational ethics can be summarized as follows:
1. To say that love is the only absolute is to deny that love is expressed in the keeping of God’s law. (John 14:15,21)
2. Both the individual and the society suffer greatly when immutables are removed . Without the security of absolutes, man wanders in a maze of uncertainty, resulting in frustration and failure. Men and women become ships without rudders.
3. If we say the end justifies the means, we face the dilemma of whether or not we can always know what the end will be before pursuing a course of action.
4. Only those who have habituated a pattern of life upon the immutable principles of God’s law and will, in unplanned circumstances respond in a manner consistent with the moral code of God.
5. If there are times when the best good is served by deception, we face a dilemma of not being able to believe or trust the situationists. Love is the very essence of the character of God. And God cannot lie.
6. If the end justifies the means, who determines what is the best end or the evil end? Surely this dilemma ultimately leads to egocentricity as man is predisposed to seek those ends which he perceives as best for himself, rather than for others. Throughout the Scriptures the answer to conflicting situations is an implicit trust in God. These principles are demonstrated over and over in the Word of God as in the case of the Red Sea experience; the experience of Kings Hezekiah and Sennacherib, Meshach and Abednego in the fiery furnace …all demonstrate that God always provides a solution to these apparent dilemmas.
The Bible is not to be tested by men’s ideas of science, but science is to be brought to the test of the unerring standard.
Were our founding fathers in error in their stand for total abstinence from alcoholic beverages? Were they unscriptural in forbidding the adultery? Were they befuddled in writing our constitution based on Scripture? Jesus Christ is our example in all things. He began life, passed through its experiences, and ended its record, with a sanctified human will. He was tempted in all points like as we are, and yet because he kept His will surrendered and sanctified, He never bent in the slightest degree toward the doing of evil, or toward manifesting rebellion against God.
If we were obliged in conscience sometimes to tell white lies, as we often call them, then in conscience sometimes we might be obliged to sometimes to engage in white thefts, white fornications, white killings, white breaking of promises, white molestation, etc.
In closing, “Even hereunto were ye called; because Christ (not soldiers) also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow His steps: who did no sin, neither was guile found in His mouth: who, when He was reviled, reviled not again; when He suffered, He threatened not; but committed Himself to Him that judgeth righteously.†1 Peter 2:21-23.
Jay Voch,
I apologise for the long running post. I attempted to put my response in italics for ease of reading. Apparently it does not seem to have worked. i hope you can make out my comments and response to your questions/comments.
Mitchell
Wow,
I did not realise that there people who think they are doing me a favor because they went to war somewhere. It is their personal choice and there is no draft! Even if there was one, we have a choice.
I do not believe in killing people. These soldiers kill people and then some of them die too. When they are killed, all their family gets is a folded flag and gun salutes at their funeral. What does that do for their children and families? Money does not buy peace or sleep. It is just not worth it. I see how my neighbor and his wife fight all the time and her husband beats her due to his anger from war.
Priests should not be called Father.
Why? Because it is written “do not call anyone on earth 'father,' for you have one Father, and he is in heaven.â€(Matthew 23:9).
Ariel
Cuckoo! Cuckoo! Cuckoo!
HAHAHAHA…OMG CJ, who opened the flood gates on here for crying out loud!!!
HOLY HELL…this is insane!
Listen folks, I have some retired military in my family, and I don't know what the military spouses go through while their other half is deployed, but I do know that I go to church on Sunday's and I pray to GOD everyday to bring all of our soldier's home safe and soon! And I thank GOD everyday for the soldier's protecting my freedom! I do not believe in subjecting anyone to my religious beliefs. We all pray to whomever we chose and at least most of the American people respect that.
This is not the time or place to be trying to shove your ideolgy (sp) down the throats of any military personnel or their families about right or wrong. They have enough stress that they have to deal with on a daily basis without some bible thumping group trying to shame them.
Get off you high horse and find another site to tell your stories to, preferrably a site that is designated for bible reading and preaching!
Yeah, I know, I will burn in hell fire for saying this…NOT…I have a forgiving GOD
YOU SHOULD BE GREATFUL BECAUSE THEY ARE FIGHING FOR YOUR FREEDOM! HOW DARE YOU SAY THAT!!!YOU DO NOT BELIEVE IN KILLING PEOPLE?? OPEN YOUR EYES PEOPLE KILL PEOPLE EVERYDAY. PROBABLY RIGHT DOWN THE ROAD FROM WHERE YOU LIVE. YOU SHOULD BE HAPPY THAT THE WAR ISN'T HERE ON OUR LAND. WITHOUT OUR HUSBANDS, FATHERS, CHILDREN THE WAR WOULD BE OVER HERE AND IF IT WAS, I BET YOU WOULD BE BEGGING OUR MEN TO STAND UP AND FIGHT FOR YOU! THINK BEFORE YOU SPEAK.
You do realize that if people DIDNT volunteer there WOULD be a draft? Where the hell do you think Stop-loss came from?! There weren't enough people joining so to prevent the draft they created stop loss to keep our military running.
AND as for Fiona and Michelle,
WHO ARE YOU TO JUDGE? You are not God and if you were a true Christian you would not belittle others. WHERE YOU IN A COMA during 9/11? or did you forget? AND do you even KNOW what they are doing over their?! Building schools, shelters, HOSPITALS. Helping those people who are being oppressed by terrorists. Its not the Iraqi or Afgani people who are evil, its the terriorists who have taken over thier countries. We are there to help them not only get their country back but to better thier lives. They can go to school and if they need help they can go to a hospital instead of just sitting in their homes waiting. They work to live, not for money or social status like here, never been to a McDonalds or Subway, they dont have those luxuaries and WE are over there making thier lives easy. How is that evil? If the KKK came and were threatening our African American community anyone who stepped in to help would be a 'murderer' what about policemen? or people who fight in self defense?
I find your comments both ignorant and offending because you obviously have lived a sheltered life where you never had to fight for what you believe in or fight to live .. before you decided to sit there and be all self righteous why dont you try to experience it? why not take the time to actually see what is going on?
“War is the pornography of violence. . . . filled with the monstrous and the grotesque. The Bible calls it 'the lust of the eye' and warns believers against it. War allows us to engage in lusts and passions we keep hidden in the deepest, most private interiors of our fantasy lives. It allows us to destroy not only things and ideas but human beings. In that moment of wholesale destruction, we wield the power of the divine, the power to revoke another person’s charter to live on this Earth. The frenzy of this destruction — and when unit discipline breaks down, or when there was no unit discipline to begin with, “frenzy†is the right word — sees armed bands crazed by the poisonous elixir that our power to bring about the obliteration of others delivers. All things, including human beings, become objects — objects either to gratify or destroy, or both. Almost no one is immune. The contagion of the crowd sees to that . . . They [troops] can instantly give or deprive human life, and with this power they become sick and demented. The moral universe is turned upside down. All human beings are used as objects. And no one walks away uninfected. War thrusts us into a vortex of pain and fleeting ecstasy. It thrusts us into a world where law is of little consequence, human life is cheap, and the gratification of the moment becomes the overriding desire that must be satiated, even at the cost of another’s dignity or life,†says Chris Hedges,
Huh?
CJ, did you change the name of this site without telling us? LOL!!!
Imagine that! A human being traumatized after having to kill others and watching their friends blown apart!
Hey I've got an Idea! Maybe Americans should quit invading foreign lands!
SO THEY CAN COME ON OUR LAND AND BLOW YOU AND YOU CHILDREN UP? BE GREATFUL
The effects of war are not limited to the people who serve. Besides the obvious effects on those civilians caught in the crossfire and their families. There are also effects on friends and relatives as well as witnesses of the violence.
Most overlooked though is the effects on members of society who are nowhere geographically near the violence. Friends and family members of those who served as well as people who do not even know anyone directly involved suffer for years and even their entire lives.
The true cost of war is far more than any political-economic fight is worth to society. Going to war over political, economic or idealisms is unacceptable.
Iraq never attacked the United States nor did Afghanistan. But now the United States has attacked those countries, committing and inciting actions that have caused the deaths of over a million civilians. As well as permanently affected the lives of countless millions more permanently.
This is not the way to win hearts and minds and in fact it has and will continue to have exactly the opposite effect, for decades to come.
So, "Claire" (or Hallie or Christine or whatever your name is), did you really think I wouldn't notice you using different names to leave comments? Did you think you could fool people into thinking that many people were as ignorant and moronic as you are? What are you afraid of that you can't simply leave a comment under your own name? Pathetic, but I wanted to out your absurdity. Nice try.
War sucks! It's a shame that now more and more men and women will be coming home with PTSD for a wars that are not worth it and never wlll be. Our country went to war based on lies!
I don't think the military likes to own up to PTSD. What's really sad is that so many join because of lack of opportunities in civillian life. Under no circumstances should a woman who is a mother of children under 18 be allowed to join the military. If a woman becomes pregnant while enlisted, she should be given a "desk" job or discharged. Long deployments away from your little ones as they learn to walk and talk is so sad and then to come home with PTSD and unable to enjoy those kids and missing out on what should be the happiest days of your lives, is a tragedy Sorry, ladies, but in this instance you can't have it all.
End American militarism; lives destroyed so that those who profit from the military/industrial complex can just get richer.
I hope all vets get what they deserve as they are victims
So, what "lies" are you talking about there, Hallie? You have obviously never served and have no inkling about how the military deals with PTSD. NONE at all!
Obviously she doesn't. Mandatory meetings pre and post deployment don't make the news I guess. Only the bad stuff. I wish that would change, the military is doing so much for soldiers and families that deploy (emotionally and mentally).
When will young American men and women realise that their recruitment into the Armed Services is not for the good of their health. Parents have a duty of care to their children to appraise them of the consequences of their decision to volunteer into the Armed Services. There is no point in crying after the milk is spilt and they are thrown on the scrap heap of humanity, having served their purpose. War is not just about killing and maiming the enemy and that wonderful phrase "collateral damage" of civilians – men women and children. It all too frequently involves one's own death, the death of one's friends and comrades but also permanent physical and psychological damage. There is no point in subsequently being rewarded with an inadequate pension, a broken family, alcohol and drug problem and the ubiquitous "thank you for your service" phrase. Better to think before signing up – too late afterwards. All young people should be made to watch the films All quiet on the Western Front, Battle for Algiers and on top of that visit VA hospitals and talk to wounded veterans and visit a few war cemeteries for a rounded view of military life and experience. Most of them are caged like wild animals – that's what they've become anyway.
There's a saying that you are either a sheep or a watchdog. Mike is obviously a sheep and the reason we need watchdogs. Who will defend Mike in his time of need? Not the people who agree with him or listen to his stupid rhetoric. Imagine! Advocating that there be no military! Is there a more ignorant statement?
CJ,
Wake up and get over here!
Fiona
Many of the most recent comments are other good examples of things NOT to say to military wives.
Fiona,
I'm not going to let you spew your hate, ignorance and stupidity on this site. If you want to call our troops babykillers and other nonsense, fine. But, you won't do it here. Leave another comment like that on here and I'll just outright ban you from commenting.
CJ
I am not a military wife…but a military girlfriend….and it is just as hard on us….we worry all the time and look forward to the little bit of phone or online time we get…we cherish everything that most people have on a daily basis….we love them for what they do and we sacrific ourselves so that the majority can be safe…..We love service men and women…
I have got another stuipd question: How do you feel that he may have to kill somebody? When I answer them its better them then my husband or his men. They look at me like I cant belive that you just said that.
THANK YOU FOR ALL THE SACRAFICES YOUR HUSBANDS AND FAMILIES HAVE MADE FOR ME & MY FAMILY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I think that this is just sad.. I have noticed lately that so many people are coming on these sites that are anti-military and spewing their hate. Not only for the Soldiers themselves but now for the families and those that support them. I am an Army Wife and I have been supportive through 2 tours to Iraq and now a tour to Afghanistan.I do not think any different of my husband for anything that he may have had to to do inorder to protect himself and his men. I am very proud of him and his fellow soliders and so greatful that because of them I myself and our two sons have the freedom that we have. What makes these people that come on these sites even worse is that now they are trying to use God as their weapon of choice. I would like to know who gave them the right to judge. If you do not support the soldiers or their families kindly stay off of pages that are in support of them. I am not going to stoop to your level and start yelling and cursing because that would make me no better then you and I obviously am. I love my husband, my family and I support all the troops and their families. GOD BLESS THEM ALL!!!
This is SO true…it's sickening how people think they have it "bad" when their loved one is gone for a week or so and then they're like, "gosh, I totally know what you go thru…" Makes me want to just slap them. They have NO clue what our men/women are doing for this country and how those of us at home struggle, cry, despair, fear and stuff.