IVAW Sets Timer On Dishonor Bomb
March 10th, 2008 by Admin
The Winter Soldier II fiasco is almost upon us. IVAW has set 13-16 March as their the day thy sell their soul to the devil and make a pact with the reaper. During Winter Soldier, IVAW veterans "who served in Iraq and Afghanistan will testify to what is really happening day in and day out." So, what is really happening "day in and day out" in Iraq? And how does a group that boasts a whopping 800 MEMBERS get off being representative of anything?
The truth is that we're doing everything we can to improve the quality of life for all Iraqis. We're delivering water to needy towns. We're training Iraqi police and saving lives.
IVAW doesn't want you to know the good news. They want you to focus on their own murderous members, like CPL Jason Washburn who joined the Marines in December 2001. He'll tell you all kinds of bad things that American Soldiers did in Iraq – none of which he witnessed. He just happens to know "someone" or have a "friend" who did something bad. He talks about seeing bodies in the streets, but never saw how they got there. He'll tell us about horrible interrogations Marines used that he never experienced. He'll talk about the "atrocities" of Haditha though he "was not there to witness the shooting." He'll have us believe that Haditha is not an isolated incident but can't recall any others. He's the consumate IVAW heresayist (yeah, I made that up.).
Heading the "verification team" is a 3-year veteran named Perry O'Brien who served an 8-month tour in Afghanistan. He is responsible for ensuring that the truth is told about operations in a country he has never been to. Exactly how will Perry "ensure the testimonies are watertight" when he never even led troops into the very war he's so adamantly against? He'll claim that Soldiers are ordered to shoot "anyone who is outside", but "you won’t find it in writing, but it’s an order indicated to soldiers" supposedly. He must have some great ears and out of body experiences.
Thankfully, we have groups like Vets For Freedom and Gathering of Eagles who are geared up to oppose the stupidity of groups of IVAW. On April 8, they are sending "Vets On The Hill" to tell the other side of the story. I can't say exactly who, but I know some very interesting people who can't wait to be there and have already signed up to take part.
Executive director, Pete Hegseth, responded to the morons in IVAW. “Did your company commander tell you to shoot women and children, or to maximise casualties? No! We don’t do that. To talk about systematic brutality is essentially indicting the military as being complicit in war crimes.”
The truth is that anyone who indiscriminately shoots innocent civilians is a murderer. They should tried and hung, not paraded around as heroes by the likes of IVAW because they were "forced" to do something against their will. I'm sorry, but it doesn't happen that way. The only end result of IVAW's efforts will be placing more Soldiers in harm's way by telling the insurgents and terrorists that American Soldiers are brutal killers who could care less about their well being. The enemy watches TV and they surf the internet. IVAW will get all the camera time they want – probably at a discount by the MSM. The insurgents will eat this up and consider it acceptance for what they're doing.
Posted in Military Perspective
Here are two excerpts from an email I received today from a Marine who voluneered to return to Al-Anbar early this year:
Compared to my last deployment here, things are a lot better. We began in the local area and did not have to utilize any escalation of force due to vehicle threats. Roads have been repaired from past IEDs and general contracting and building is improving across the bar.
The local people are very cooperative with us which foils insurgent's plans to intimidate them to get to us. This is mainly due to the Iraqi Army and police force kicking butt. Several schools and shops have been rebuilt and improved. The main takeaway is that finally, the Iraqi people have said "enough is enough" towards the insurgents and have solidly taken a stance against them and their tactics and threats. This is gigantic for us because along with the thousands of training hours we have implemented, now the Iraqi Army and Police along with several additional security forces can protect what is theirs. This is also, why you may be reading about why the insurgents are utilizing mentally ill adults or children for suicide attacks. They have no other followers.
Unlike the last bunch of lying cowards of the 1971 Winter Soldier, of which I remember well, the next batch will be forced to swear their testimony and provide proof of that which they claim. If and when they do so, they will be owning up to war crimes and they will be prosecuted.
That which happened to our troops way back then will NOT take place again…not on our watch.
Two of those troops they want to lie about and besmirch is my son and myself.
EAGLES UP! RUCK UP!
HOOAH?
These cretins piss me off. I will be standing with my brothers and sisters this coming weekend in DC.
Winter Soldier Redux…
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I'm glad to hear any one's account of what's been happening over there. It seems to get skewed one way or the other. As the above mentions, they will be doing it as sworn testimony, with all the legal implications that implies. Just say the truth and let the chips fall where they may. This group, however, seems intent on only information that will discredit the soldiers involved, which annoys me to no end. For whatever reasons people opposed our having started this war (and I have several…), we are honor-bound to finish what we started and get it done with.
I'd rather like to see more demonstrations about why Iraq isn't paying for this war and I am.
David
David, I tend to agree. I recall that when we went into Iraq, we were promised that Iraq's oil revenue would be responsible for most of the rebuilding and yet we're still paying through the teeth. I don't mind being and our military operations being paid for in America, but we need to stop paying for reconstruction now.
To do the subject service, I watched the video on IVAW's website. Low on substance, high on shock-value footage as I expected. Most of the stories were after the fact "we saw this and we saw that". Basically, enough to impassion reporters, but not enough to impassion a judge (except for that one out in California who denied the foster child the ablity to enlist).
For all you people serving in the middle east, and elseware, Thank you!!! And if you want to drop dime on something happening that shouldn't be happening, speak up! File a report and be done with it. It seems these people at IVAW are more impassioned about their movement then about what their cause represents.
David
As I have always said, if 'you' saw a crime committed, then by all means, you are REQUIRED to report it and we are REQUIRED to see that it is prosecuted. I practice what I preach. I for one, HAVE testified in a court martial while on the ground in Vietnam. We gladly punished those who were quilty and would gladly fight to the DEATH to defend those who were not. When we got home, the MSM, Jane Fonda, John Kerry and their lot, convicted ALL OF US.
This 'Winter Soldiers' junk is an act of TREASON! It is designed to convict My Son, My Relatives, My Friends (and yours), and My fellow veterans (and yours). It has NOTHING to do with the Truth or Justice. My blood boils …
I have never ordered (or even 'allowed') my men to commit any illegal or immoral act. As I have always said, if 'you' saw a crime committed, then by all means, you are REQUIRED to report it and we are REQUIRED to see that it is prosecuted. I practice what I preach. I for one, HAVE testified in a court martial while on the ground in Vietnam. We didn't come home and indict everyone, instead we prosecuted the guilty. We gladly punished those who were quilty. And even today, I would gladly fight to the DEATH to defend those who were not guilty. When we got home, the MSM, Jane Fonda, John Kerry and their lot, falsely convicted ALL OF US. To me, this was an act of Treason.
This new 'Winter Soldiers II' ploy is also an act of TREASON! It is designed to convict My Son, My Relatives, My Friends, and My fellow veterans for acts that THEY did NOT do. It has NOTHING to do with the Truth or Justice. Yes, I DO take it personal and yes my blood boils …
2008.03.12 Politics and National Defense Roundup…
This post will grow as the day goes on. Don't forget to check back later. My politics and national defense blogging may get sorta sporadic for a while. Those of you who've been reading everything on my blog and not just my daily roundups know that th…
"Hearsayist" oughta be a word. Works for me.
I read somewhere that the IVAW plans to translate their "proceedings", so they're trying to stir up trouble for the US and the troops in the form of demonstrations throughout the ME like the Mohammad cartoons caused. They should be charged if there is one troop death or injury due to their nonsense!
After living through the damage of Winter Soldier and the subsequent difficulties it caused, and to be totally discredited later, I hope that we all keep guard on the TRUTH though this process. We must keep hold of the Truth at all times.
Never will I understand hating your country so much to lie about her….
I was a testifier at Winter Soldier and I dont understand how IVAW are called cowards and traitors. We need to realize that its the politicians that are the traitors. I'm a 7 year veteran and I was there in the beginning of the invasion. I watched with my own eyes as Iraqis were being tortured, not something a buddy witnessed or something I had heard of. I watched a soldier smash a bound and blindfolded Iraqi with his kevlar. 9/11 had nothing to do with Iraq. We never even looked for WMD's, THE SUBJECT NEVER EVEN CAME UP. We were sent over there based on lies and now we wont allow our soldiers to come home? Whos the real traitor?
Tears,
YOU are the traitor. YOU sat there and "watched with your own eyes as Iraqis were being tortured." For this, you should be tried for war crimes and sentenced to a brutal death for placing your fellow Soldiers' lives in jeopardy because of YOUR actions. YOU are the disgraceful Soldier I'm speaking about in these posts. YOU are the war criminal and traitor, not the politicians who send us into combat to be HONORABLE Warriors.
You really sicken me and if I go on thinking about your cowardice will make me more and more sick to my stomach. I hope your memories eat away at your insides on a daily basis at what you've allowed to happen.
CJ, SSgtJ,
This has become pretty pathetic. If you want to deny that the war in Iraq is [expletive deleted] to hell, be my guest. IVAW are honorable men trying to do the right thing and convince congress of the many reasons that this war needs to end immediately.
To take the stance that making an argument against war is cowardice is juvenile and pretty pathetic. I almost broke down in tears listening to a Marine corporal tell of how the mistake he made giving an azimuth (as an untrained observer, simply answering the questions put to him) caused the deaths of dozens of innocent Afghanis.
The point most of these Marines and Soldiers are trying to put forward is that the wars in Iraq and Afghanistans simply need to end; there is death, brutality and tragedy on both sides of the conflicts and it is all completely unnecessary, as there has been little evidence ever produced (if any at all) that continuing them has increased our own level of security on the home-front.
Now, predictably, you'll rant that I'm a traitor to my country and should be ashamed of myself for expressing my well-deserved first amendment right to freedom of speech. Go ahead.
Semper Fidelis
SgtUSMC,
You're free to have your opinion and I'll let it fly, but next time watch your language. Obviously, you're new here so I gave you the benefit of the doubt and just edited your comment. Next time, I'll delete it – not for content, but for language.
Just about any war has "death, brutality and tradedy on both sides". Thank you, Dr. Obvious!! That's why many active duty soldiers would be the first to love to see it end. Most people took part in D-Day knew that it was going to be brutal and grusome. Amazingly they just did it anyway and the result was history. Let's get it down to the basics:
1. If IVAW wants to vent about the mistakes during the onset of the war, go for it. If its members made mistakes, they should be held accountable. This attonement effort comes with a broad brush, however. As a result many soldiers get painted as "bad guys".
2. The brush gets us to the second point. merely stopping the war because its brutal, or icky doesn't mean its the right way to go. You can't be so simplistic to think its like stopping a bus, just put on the breaks. Its more like stopping a sailboat. You don't, you just come up with a better direction.
IVAW is similar to Code Pink. They start with honorable intentions, but lose it in the implementation. Read The Communist Mannifesto. It sure sounds great, but the result is anything but. By the way, SgtUSMC, thanks for your service.
David
David, you're my new favorite Liberal.
David – you're a smart man and I appreciate your opinion. In high school I read the communist manifesto and thought it was the greatest concept ever, as I matured and learned the ways of the world I felt different.
Likewise, a year ago I had the same opinion you do about the war in iraq, that it is such a difficult and complicated situation that even if there were justified reason to end our involvement in it that it must be slow and methodical or chaos would ensue.
Since then I have again begun to change my thinking on the subject. What I have learned, read, heard has had a lot of impact on my opinion. Recently I read about a study that basically said that the reality of the mission of most combat units in Iraq has more to do with protecting their own asses than protecting the people of Iraq; the general outcome of running missions like this is that the longer we are in country, the more "insurgents" we create via collateral damage and accidental killing of civilians. the simple math is that if there are X insurgents now, and that as we continue our "mission" in country we end up negatively influencing many more neutral-minded Iraqis toward a hatred and distrust for us than we kill or capture, then X is growing faster than we can keep it in check.
ie, the sooner we leave, the less insurgents there will be in the country and the BETTER the chances that 1) chaos will NOT destroy the country and 2) we will NOT be fighting them here on our own soil.
add to that the fact that if we give the men and women of the combat arms more of a respite and some needed time off from fighting and they will be better equiped and ready if there ever IS a need for them to fight on our own home soil.
thoughts?
(of course, you are welcome, i did it with pride and i will always continue to keep the mission of defending our people and our constitution against all enemies in my heart)
just to explain that math with a real situation;
April 8, 2003 – a squad of marines was patrolling through Saddam City (the slums on the eastern side of baghdad, i dont recall what this district is called now) and they were ambushed by machine gun positions in a number of windows of apartments buildings all up and down the block.
i was in a mortar platoon and was called for support to destroy the machine gun positions. we fired nearly 400 rounds of 81mm HE, each in volleys of 15-20 rounds (a few times a gun went down and only 3 fired) – after 2 volleys or so, the Forward Observer would call an adjustment and move the impacts from one machine gun position to another.
By the end of the fight, zero marines had been killed (a few were shot in the head but modern kevlar saved their lives), a few civilians were killed by the enemy machine gun positions, all of the machine gunners (6-10) were killed and 4-5 apartment buildings were in rubble. Each of these buildings were occupied by civilians and when we got a report from some SEALs that checked casualties in the buildings they said there were a few hundred dead iraqis, most likely many of them were civilians.
Now, I don't question the actions of the FO, his CO, my mortar platoon, honestly any marine that day. In fact there were a number of silver stars handed out to Marines that rushed back into the streets from cover to pull the civilians who'd been hit by machine gun fire out of the open. The unfortunate fact is that there are civilian casualties and collateral damage in every war, more-so in urban environments. I don't dispute this fact and I'm not passing any blame or moral judgement on members of the military BECAUSE of this fact. What I'm saying is that if you stand back and look at that event logically you can see what I'm saying. 15 marines were endangered by 6-10 enemy combatants, the Marines followed their ROEs and did their job and as a result, kept their boys alive (mission accomplished), but as a result they killed a hell of a lot more than just the 6-10 enemy combatants, and if any of those dead civilians had friends and family who were friendly to us before that event, they were not afterward.
Am I making sense?
I can't believe that anyone with a brain could support this war, besides the intelligent people who are extorting America. You don't sound like a total moron, so I guess that's why I'm wondering how this war benefits you or your family. Is it the false sense of security you get by fighting them over there so you don't have to over here? That's absurd and a thought process which cannot be described without words like flawed, ignorant, and just plain silly. If you look at the last major (non-Amercian) terrorist attack, you will note that all but 2 of the hijackers were Saudi Arabian. Why don't we go occupy Riyadh? That would make sense right? Maybe you should think for yourself instead of lending your brain, voice, and life to Fox News and Bush Co.