Purple Heart For PTSD?
May 14th, 2008 by CJ
It shouldn't be so, but Defense Secretary Robert Gates is saying that the possibility of awarding the Purple Heart to veterans of Iraq and Aghanistan "needs to be looked at".
The Army classifies PTSD as an illness, not an injury, so troops with PTSD don’t qualify for the Purple Heart. That distinction is limited to troops killed or wounded in a conflict.
“I would love to see that changed, because these guys have paid at least as high a price, some of them, as anybody with a traumatic brain injury, as anybody with a shrapnel wound,” [John E. Fortunato, who conceived of and runs the Fort Bliss Recovery and Resilience Center] said.
Not recognizing those with PTSD with a Purple Heart “says that this is the wound that isn’t worthy,” Fortunato said. “And it is.”
I'm sorry, but I disagree!
I've made my opinions (opinions, mind you – I'm speaking for myself) about PTSD. The Purple Heart is a somber award. It's probably the only medal that Soldiers don't necessarily WANT. Many of us call it the "enemy's marksmanship badge". I've seen many instances where Soldiers have denied the Purple Heart for not being "wounded enough." When you've been injured in an attack where your fellow Soldiers have been killed or lose limbs it's difficult to accept a medal on the what would appear to be "inferior wounds."
Opening up the Purple Heart to PTSD sufferers would bastardize the award. PTSD is simply too subjective and can be easily fakes. Those fictitious Soldiers that want sympathy and attention will be tripping over themselves to get the privileges and rights that come with an award they didn't earn. Would Soldiers from WWII and Vietnam who suffered (or continue to suffer) from PTSD, "shell-shock", and other mental conditions be considered as well?
Everyone that goes to combat and actually has to fire a weapon at another human being, gets shot at by the enemy, or watches or witnesses the horrorific results of war is affected. Some people deal with it differently but I defy anyone to find someone who's been to Iraq or Afghanistan, been in a firefight (ie: left he FOB), and come back no different than when he or she left. How would PTSD be defined? Because if we allow the extreme right wing liberals in Congress to define PTSD, we're all suffering!
Gates said that awarding the medal for PTSD would "remove the stigma" associated with seeking help with the condition. Instead of giving medals that are meant for more deserving individuals, how about just remove the stigma? It's up to us as leaders to ensure that our Soldiers know that they can seek help and that there is nothing wrong with it. We are to blame for that "stigma" not the lack of medals on our chests. If our leaders honestly think that a medal would encourage more troops to seek help, just create a PTSD Sufferer Medal!! On the front could be a picture of human brain with a large hole in the middle and on the back we could inscribe the words "Awarded For Bravery In Seeking Mental Help" or "I Fought For My Country And All I Got Was PTSD".
Better yet, buy one of my shirts!! A must-have for EVERY combat vet, the "Prone to PTSD" t-shirt will ensure that everyone around you knows not to piss you off! I guarantee that people will tiptoe around you everywhere you go and use language that won't set you off. You'll be treated differently, the way all of us PTSD sufferers should be treated. It's better than a Purple Heart or PTSD Medal because you can wear this t-shirt ANY TIME YOU WANT!!! Just click the shirt below or visit our store to orders yours today!!
Respectfully, I have to disagree with your opinion re; PTSD vets should not be awarded the Purple Heart. Please understand that I am aware that the Purple Heart is a somber award. I spent just shy of three tours in Vietnam with the combat engineers up in the central highlands. I have seen some guys put in for a Purple Heart, and receive it, from wounds that were not received from the enemy, but from the type of job they did. It was one of those… "who you know" things. I know you will agree with me that these guys are not deserving of that award.
With that said, if a vet is diagnosed with PTSD and it is proven to be from exposure to combat, the I feel that soldier should be awarded the Purple Heart. PTSD vets suffer the effects of that battle for the rest of their lives.
Many people that do not suffer from ptsd, cannot understand what those that do have ptsd go through on, pretty much a daily basis.
Please do not mis-understand me when I say a PTSD vet should be awarded the Purple Heart. If such an award is given to PTSD vets, it should be done on an individual basis, not just a blanket award.
Again, I do respect your opinion, however, I do humbly disagree.
Thanks fro listening.
Pauley
Pauley,
I'm going to let you (and my readers) in on something I've never mentioned seriously before. I suspect that those closest to me probably already know about what I'm about to reveal.
I have no doubt that I suffer from PTSD. While I was in Iraq during some of the heaviest fighting during the war, I saw and did some of the most mind-numbing things you can imagine. I was involved in numerous explosions and somehow walked away from it. I said goodbye to my family on three separate occasions where I accepted my fate that I was about to die.
How do I suffer? Aside from my physical injuries, I find it difficult to focus. I don't sleep very well and wake up to every sound. I've almost crashed my motorcycle on a few occasions when it backfired or I heard another nearby boom. I'm now short-tempered, withdrawn, and get literally shaky around large groups. I'm hyper-aware of my surroundings in public places and still change lanes crossing under bridges and when passing cars on the side of the road.
But, I don't deserve a Purple Heart for it. What next? Purple Hearts for kidney stones for drinking too much bottled water in a combat zone? I have the utmost respect for my brothers and sisters in arms suffering from PTSD. I KNOW that there are fakers out there wearing the Purple Heart who shouldn't be. They will answer for it in hell! It's simply too difficult to accurately diagnose PTSD in today's entitlement hungry environment where everyone thinks they're owed something. It's too tempting and easy to fake symptoms and there are plenty of Soldiers already doing it to get over.
You make great points, Pauley, but I think we're going to have to respectfully disagree on this subject. I say this now because I want to show others that it's okay to have PTSD – but, we don't deserve a medal for it.
CJ,
Thank you for your openly discussing your views regarding this very important issue. I like yourself served in Iraq, was wounded, saw horriffic carnage and today am a disabled combat veteran after serving my tour. I completely understand your issues with PTSD because I have them as well. Without much more being said, thank you for being the voice of reason in this clouded issue. I understand PTSD and I understand wounds from combat action, I have both and still carry shrapnel in my skull and jaw. No medal will ever stop the pain I still endure and the memories that will never escape me and no medal for PTSD will ever solve that issue as well. Don't change the history and heritage of the Purple Heart Medal, please don't bastardize the only award for wounds received in action. Please.
CJ,
Thanks for sharing that with us. You are very brave to reveal what you are feeling. I don't have enough expertise on this subject to say one way or another whether our troops should have purple hearts or medals for PTSD. I do however thank all of you who have gone through so much and are still suffering through things we civiians cannot understand.
I do so appreciate you and all of our troops! THANK YOU!!
God Bless You All!!
Perhaps my colleague from RVN knows someone with "Real PTSD" You will not find it in a med station or military hospital. There are symptoms that are the same. Awarding the PH to an active duty soldier is totally without merit. "Real PTSD' takes a long time to diagnose properly and treating it is like herding cats. I am in total support of veterans who are 100% service connected, permanent and total should be awarded the PH. My RVN colleague mentioned about getting your ticket punched for a PH to enhance a career or bragging rites. "Real PTSD" are designated by a team of mental health providers at the Veterans Administration hospitals over a long time. A diagnosis of PTSD undermines the leadership of an unit. Who wants to follow a NCO or officer who had just been diagnosed with PTSD into a firefight? Psychological wounds are just as real as are physical wounds and in many cases the pain and stigma linger throughout the life of the patient. Please give this some though as we debate this important issue. Thanks for letting an old Warrior and doctor to express his opinion in this forum. God bless all of you.
Dr. Ron
My dad suffers from PTSD from Vietnam. After all the years of being home he was diagnosed with it just over a year ago.
Growing up in my house was no picnic. He was never a drinker nor did he have a problem with holding down a job. He retired from a city job after 25 years. But it was always walking on egg shells around him always. We never knew when he would explode about nothing.
I am glad he was able to get the help he rightfully needed and now he cant make up it up with his kids since we are older and married but he has been doing is making it up with his grandchildren.
I believe getting the help these men and women need means much more to them and their families who have also suffered then getting a purple heart.
Do you have a T-shirt that says: "Prone to losing my legs%u201D for Disabled Veterans in wheel chairs? Isn't that as funny?
I am a 100% service connected Disabled Vietnam Veteran. I was discharged after three years in the Army in 1972 with a "psychotic war neurosis%u201D and damage to my ear drum/hearing loss. Through the 1970%u2019s both conditions got worse, leading to my losing a federal job due to lost time for inpatient treatment in VA Facilities. Going into the eighties the fancy name %u201CPost Traumatic Stress Disorder%u201D became the term for psychotic war wounds .As a Vietnam Veteran that became 100% unemployable due to wounds from my service in Vietnam; Yes! I do think I am not only worthy of the award of the Purple Heart. I know in my heart that I earned it ,the hard way with honorable service in Vietnam from July 70-July 71
SP/5 Janice Josephine Carney US Army 1969/1972
Janice,
No, sorry, I don't have that shirt. You see, the loss of a leg is obvious and incontrovertable! No shirt is necessary. People don't trounce around pretending to be one-legged. But, you're free to make one if you think you need one. I won't take your idea!
Oh, and thank you for your service.
Since I have never worn the uniform of any of our branches of the military I don't feel as though I have the privilege of commenting on this personally. However, I would like to comment that I know many service members who would agree with CJ over any of the other commenters here or over what SecDef Gates proposes.
Above all I have the greatest respect for all of those who do suffer from PTSD. As CJ said I find it difficult to believe that anyone who has been in the fight doesn't suffer on some level.
I would agree (again from those I know who have and do serve) that the stigma MUST be extinguished.
To those who are faking it – hell is a big place.
Let's leave the Purple Heart as it is and has been. Let's provide the very best in treatment for PTSD. The Veterans I have spoken to about this do NOT want a medal for PTSD. That includes current Veterans, Vietnam Veterans, and one from the Beirut bombing. Thank you all so much.
Vickie is correct. We don't want a medal.
I think Dr. Ron expressed it best. There is stress and then there is PTSD. Traumatic events cause stress in all of us. It appears before the event (if we know it is coming), during the event (if you have too much idle time) and certainly after the event (until you reconcile the event in your mind).
As CJ has said before, proper training will reduce that stress.
Support after the event will also reduce the stress. That support may even prevent PTSD from ever developing.
Compare how many Vietnam Veterans who stayed in the military after the war, came down with PTSD vs those who got out of the military and tried to live in the anti-military world they returned to! One group got support, the other got nothing but blame and ridicule.
SSgtJ, great points. I would also add something I didn't think about until today. Will PTSD qualify people for a Purple Heart oak leaf cluster if they've sustained other physical injuries? What if their PTSD is "healed" and returns later? Do they get another one?
I want to say that I'm offended by Dr. Ron's statement that no one wants to follow someone with PTSD. By that standard, we should let all active duty soldiers go for years untreated? No thanks. I've been to enough funerals of active duty soldiers already.
CJ, from what I understand of PTSD, I hesitate to paint it with a broad brush. Many people believe it is only a psychiatric or psychological issue. But in some cases, this is not true. There are some cases where PTSD has a physical injury base to either the body or the brain itself. For the record, I do NOT believe the Military Member should receive "The Purple Heart" for PTSD alone. I personally believe, a disorder is not something you really "heal", but more like a chronic issue you hopefully can control. But for this to happen, it takes many things. It takes the true grit of the soldier to seek and accept the help for this disorder. Second, it is equally important for the military to accept its responsibility and help the soldier. He should get the help he needs and deserves.
As always,
"Grumpy"
I would trade my PTSD for a healed blood wound any day of the week.
My life is a never ending train wreck replayed over and over again. I will never be the same person I was before I entered that cess pool of a country 15 year ago.
The haunting PTSD monkey is on my back 24-7….I am a walking ghost of the person I was in May 1993. I PTSD and have not received any treatment. Thoughts of suicide are a daily occurrence to end this nightmare of a life I live.
I keep a picture of my wife and children to remind me what a selfish act that would be but it is a constant struggle, I have loaded my pistol twice.
I do not deserve or would I accept and or wear a purple heart. But we as a nation need to figure out how to deal with the deep never ending scars of PTSD and give those who suffer treatment so they will seek it without shame. No one wants to wear the scarlet "P".
CJ, Mogadishu Vet, you both talk about your experiences with PTSD. Please understand, I'm taking everything you are writing as fact. I've got a question for you. Have you gone to a doctor or specialist to document the issue? They are only going to tell you what you already know. As we were told a little more than 40 years ago, "Your soul may be the Lord's, but your ass is still U.S. Government property, take care of it."
Grumpy,
PS, I fell asleep, woke and decided to look at your site and glad I did. I hope this is a good holiday for both of you.
CJ, part of your statement is wrong. I was there when SecDef Gates made that whole statement. The comment you made concerning him stating the it would remove the stigma was in reference to Question #21 on the Security Clearance Form. All the SecDef said in reference to the Purple Heart was it deserves to be looked at.
As a graduate of the R & R program, I laugh when people say I am cured of PTSD. I can cope with it better, but I still snap, still have to take my meds, still have the dreams, night terrors, hallucinations, and so on. Telling myself I am in the US is easier than a year ago. Do I agree that it should be awarded? Personally, no. Dr. Fortunato and I have talked about this. We don't agree. Don't have to though, he has his opinion and so do I. He really does care about the troops, though.
If you all get a chance, google the Restoration & Resilience Center, Ft. Bliss, TX. It's a great program for Combat Related PTSD. Not for other forms of PTSD. You have to have been there, done that to get considered. Each soldier is interviewed by several docs to determine if they are eligible. There are a lot of other factors and decisions, but I wasn't aware of them and they're too far above my pay grade to get to know the in's & out's. One defining factor: you have to want to stay in the Army.
Dr. Ron, having PTSD was one of the reasons my team & squad did follow me into combat situations. Many of them hadn't been to Iraq before and, as I was on my 2nd & 3rd tours, leading green troops, it was just one of the many quirks I had. One thing they all knew was that no matter what, I would bring them back, to the best of my abilities. The only people who looked at me weird were everybody else from my platoon leader and up. You know what they would say when I would snap? Oh, it's just him, he's crazy, he's been to war too many times. Yet they would still go out with me.
My combat-related PTSD (as it was told to me) was different than what the manual said. I had anger first, then depression. DSM-IV says it's the other way around. I also wanted to get better to go back to combat. That was/is supposed to be a no-no. I liked the killing of the enemy. That's a no-go, too, by the way. Oh, I lost my objectivity and humanity too. After time, therapy, and other stuff, I am regaining some of the happy-go-lucky, always laughing and smiling self. I, as you and other brothers and sisters know, will never be the same, but I will not be the person I was before admitting I had problems and was diagnosed. I am trying to modify the person I am.
Other than the misquote, I pretty much agree. To those who are faking, they'll get theirs. Take care, be safe, be good, or be good at being bad. SGT A
p.s. – sorry for the lengthiness, just saw this and felt I had to correct that one thing, then I wanted to let you and others know about the R&R Center. I don't want a Purple Heart for PTSD, didn't want the one I got for an IED/ambush either. But I hope that there will be repeats of the R&R Ctr at other posts, to help many more who won't get help for fear of ridicule. If the leaders can be convinced that we aren't all bad people, that we are salvageable, and still want to serve, maybe the help process can be sped up.
Sorry for rambling, that happens a lot. Thanks for serving, brother. Check six.
I read your recent posts on Purple Hearts being awarded for PTSD. As a VietNam combat veteran diagnosed with PTSD it was of great interest to me. I am 100% service connected, and have often felt there was a gross inequity that a person could recieve a wound (even if slight) and recieve a Purple Heart when those of us suffering the life-long effects of PTSD recieved no recognition whatsoever with regards to a medal.
Don't read into this that I feel a Purple Heart is the correct award…but I am not sure it isn't either. As for denigrating or bastardizing the meaning of the PH award that is crap. Why would any PH recipient feel that another brother that fought and sustained mental wounds would be any less deserving?
Not all wounds are visable, and I have dealt with mine for over 40 years. My PTSD caused by combat experience has greatly lessened my quality of life. The effects have destroyed three marriages, my self-esteem, joy and any sense of "future" I had prior to my combat experience. Add to the existing stigma of PTSD the hurtful/ignorant statements found in many of your postings…and it's easy to see why people that served in combat but did not "bleed for their country" are bitter about their unequal treatment.
None of those mentioned qualifications seem adequate to pass judgement on the variances between PTSD and "real combat" damages.
This is just what all us suffering from PTSD need. More of an elitist/I got hurt worse than you did approach from other veterans that were mostly unlucky enough to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. We were too, but apparently a life-long sentence to mental problems wasn't a high enough price for us to pay.
Here's a dictionary definition of the word "injury":
Injury is damage or harm caused to the structure or function of the body caused by an outside agent or force, which may be physical or chemical. A severe and perhaps life-threatening injury is called a physical trauma.
Sounds precisely like what is required for being awarded a Purple Heart.
Of course what would I know…I didn't bleed.
How about a separate award that said…Damaged Warrior Unworthy of a Medal.
Tom Frost (Spec 4 1st Air Cav/ An Khe, Dak To, Kontum VietNam 1966-1967)
There are too many people now that come back from a fob tour in iraq or afghanistan that try to claim ptsd. I got shot in afghanistan and received a purple heart. I don't think that if you get ptsd you should get an award for being wounded by the enemy.
this whole debate is stirring up alot of sad mixed emotions. Iam 100 % vet. I have a 18 inch titanium rod in my femUr. i didnt receive the purple heart. my thought are scattered and very emotional.
but one thing i do feel. i feel low i feel like i am not good enough…
ITS NOT THE DAMN METAL THAT I WANT… I DONT WANT ANYONE SYMPATHY I WANT SOMEONE TO UNDERSTAND WHAT CANT BE EXPLAINED. WORDS CANT EXPLAIN TO HOLE THAT I HAVE IN ME.
someone wrote it best..
How about a separate award that said%u2026Damaged Warrior Unworthy of a Medal.
My question is to anyone against the whole PH for PTSD.
WHAT MAKES YOU WORTHY?
SGT. RAMIREZ
173rd AIRBORNE INFANTRY.
Well, I guess I have to weigh into this since I am someone who is actually involved in providing an opinion in the consideration of the award of the Purple Heart for certain cases of PTSD.
I served in Vietnam with three EOD teams over an 18-month period. I was wounded twice, once when a mortar round went off in the back of a truck as I was trying to move it to a demo area inside an ammo dump that had been blown up three times in thirty days. Needless to say, this was before robots and jammers when every incident was up front and personal. During my time, many of the missions I was on were in support of the 173rd Airborne Brigade, the 101st Airborne Division (Airmobile) and III Marine Amphibious Force. I participated in numerous combat assaults and saw things that no person should ever see. As you may know, one of our jobs was to clear dead American and enemy bodies of ordnance and I did this on dozens of occasions, both in the bush and at locations such as Graves Registration collection points. I am diagnosed with PTSD, as well as five other conditions as a result of being wounded and exposure to herbicides.
I have been working with disabled veterans as a service officer for Vietnam Veterans for many years and have seen hundreds of veterans who have been diagnosed with PTSD. Most of these men and women, including a number who served in Iraq and Afghanistan, have not been diagnosed with serious, chronic and pervasive PTSD, nor have they suffered the well recognized personality changes that occur in the most serious cases. To contend, today, after more than forty years of research, that the effects in some cases of PTSD are not as "bad" as in some cases of physical wounds, is simply without foundation.
Those commenting here and in other forums that somehow a soldier could "fake" his or her way into a Purple Heart because of PTSD is without merit if the criteria developed are as stringent as those I am proposing. For instance, a diagnosis alone would not suffice. Nor would a soldier's or veteran's subjective statements of the purported trauma to which they were exposed. In that regard, many people have a mistaken understanding of what it takes to be rated for PTSD by the VA, or even by the military in disability retirement cases.
In every case I have handled in the past five years, corroboration is required. This typically comes in the form of official military records and reports and sworn statements by witnesses and those who have first-hand knowledge of symptoms. In the VA system, the award of a CIB, a Purple Heart, or a decoration for heroism or valor, although establishing exposure to trauma, is usually not enough to sustain a diagnosis and rating. Corroboration of specific events and symptoms described by the veteran is still required.
For example, one of my current clients, survived the seige at Fire Support Base Ripcord in July 1970. He was wounded and received the Purple Heart, as well as a Bronze Star with "V" Device for heroism. Nonetheless, I am required to provide corroboration as to the precise circumstances he claims have caused his symptoms and the orders for the Purple Heart and the citation for his Bronze Star are deemed insufficient. I was able to do this by recovering reports and S-2 Journals for the days he was there, as well getting statements from others who were there.
My proposal will require stringent criteria that, in my opinion, will not be capable of manipulating. On the other hand, as several have already noted in this thread, even the Purple Heart for being wounded is occasionally capable of manipulation, as is virtually every other award other than the DSC and the MOH. In addition, the diagnosis and severity of symptoms can be easily confirmed with the use of psychometric tools such as the PTSD Checklist, the Mississippi Scale for Combat-Related PTSD, the MMPI PTSD Subscale and the Impact of Event Scale. My criteria would require use of at least two of these testing protocols.
As I have noted in my proposal, the criteria for the Purple Heart have changed dramatically since it was first awarded. The first three cases during the Revoluntionary War were not for wounds, but were for acts of bravery and conspicuous meritorious achievement and it was not until December 1943 that the award criteria was changed to physical wounds only. Moreover, it was not until 2006 that the award could be given for wounds from certain types of friendly fire, concusion injuries, or for self-inflicted wounds occurring during the heat of battle. There are those who, today, would still not allow the award to be given in these circumstances.
In conclusion, this is a matter, in my humble opinion, which is worthy of serious consideration, no matter what the final outcome. It cannot simply be sloughed off on the basic of rhetoric like "that's the way it's always been and so that's the way it must always be."
Stu,
This was one of the best written voices and opinions that I have seen in a while. Myself a veteran of Iraq rated for PTSD and Shrapnel injuries was retired after a career in the Army. I live with the emotional and physical wounds. I find myself suitable still yet to this day to state that PTSD is not and should not be grounds for awarding of the Purple Heart. That said, I am NOT discluding the impact or the damage PTSD can cause. I am however in support of keeping the requirements for the Purple Heart in tact becasue so many are still denied for wounds sustained in action. Can anyone justify awarding a medal for emotional and psychological complications when so many are being denied that same medal for physical disabling injuries sustained in combat action. The word eleventeen comes to mind, it just doesn't make sense! My Purple Heart is recognition of the shrapnel embedded in my skull and jaw and the nerve damage and loss of range of motion in my arm and shoulder, not for my PTSD. That is all that is needed. Keep the Purple Heart for wounds received in action as a result of enemy action. Keep the emotional and psychological scars out of the medal count. Mine don't belong there for PTSD.
I say PTSD and Agent Orange should get the Purple Heart. They are conbat damage from these that follow the vet for the rest of their lives, and A/A has even damaged the Veterans Children. I was a combat soldier in Viet Nam, 1967-1968, TET Offensive, 2/17 Cav, 101rst airborned Division/ I receceive numerous injuries from a rocket blast concussion, cuts abrasion, and a head concussin, medivac to Long Binh, where some genius said my injury was from an "Auto Accident". Which meant No Purple heart for me
I am a Vietnam Combat Airborne Veteran 100%
and I done agree that ptsd is a combat wound.
I am Disabled American Veteran 100% disabled,
and have my Purple Heart for my combat wound.
I was in vietnam back in 1969 with C 2/501 101 Airborne in the A Shau Valley and I am one of the brother who did my time in Hamburger hill, that why I done agree with that person.
from this: AIRBORNE INFANTRY SOLDIER!
GOD BLESS USA
Washington came up with the purple heart for those that paid a price— well!!!! I know those wanting out of war and shot themselves in the foot to do so and did get out and also awared the purple hart- I wasn't shot-nor did I shot myself in the foot- but I have broken bones- fracture skull- dreams so bad they eat me alive and have for years and Yes have been awarded PTSD service war time connected-yES i AM 100 PERCENT SERVICE CONNECTED DISABALED VET.- so did I pay a price like washington intended when he came up with the medal—- I feel I have and others like me did also- but let those in the white house ask this to all that didn't server yet will vote on this issue- what right do they have to say Yes or No to the Pain in our minds we live with daily—- so already my mind is purple and my heart is also purple from the memories I live through each day as I know so many others do also- But Hey- I lived without one this many years why should I think the USA would call it a wond when most of them never served in wartime or searved thier country at all—-Gary
I'm not agreeing or disagreeing. However, I will trade any award or purple or green or whatever color heart or medal for the old me back.I'm 90% and in this state that means my six year old that already talks of going to LSU can go tuition and fee free. I'll work three jobs till he's 18 and take my old life back without the dreams, the memories, the visions and the loss of so many friends.
I'll wager my 70% 'Nam service PTSD is a lot more disabling than all of Sen. John Kerry's injuries for which he received 3 purple hearts.
My husband and Grandfather hold that book in high esteem. Whole heartedly agree with you there!!!
I have mixed feelings about the issue. I served with the 82nd Airborne Division as an Infantryman in both Afghanistan and Iraq (2002-2004). I have since been discharged and have been diagnosed with PTSD from the VA. There is a very reasonable arguement on both sides. I can agree with some that it would "cheapen" the soldier's Purple Hearts that suffer from severe injuries. There has also been a problem that has been apparent since Vietnam that most medals such as the Silver Star, Bronze Star and others. I have witnessed officers that spent 80% of their time sitting behind a desk, handling critical duties, but NOT in the thick of things get awarded the Bronze Star and I have seen a SPC-4 save another soldiers life after a IED attack under fire and he got a Army Commendation Medal with the "V" Valor Device. These types of discrepancies cheapen all awards. I think that it should stay the way it is except for soldiers with a 100% disability for PTSD, they deserve it. I think that the issue is similar to another recent change in the Army Medals. The addition of the Combat Action Badge has cheapened the the Combat Infantryman's Badge and the Combat Medics Badge. I understand that in todays wars everyone may see time on the front line, but I have saw MANY "CAB's" awareded to soldiers who VERY RARELY left the FOB, such as cooks, mechanics and the likes. I have always said, be proud to have served and the job you done they are all important, but I put the PTSD Purple Heart issue with the CAB issue…it cheapens the other award recipients. Thanks.
Hmmm Interesting. This is a very deep and intreguing thread. I am a former soldier 18 years served Some active army some national guard. I have been to both Iraq and Afghanistan. I didnt get to kill anyone or see any real action. Yes I was outside of the wire most of the time. I only considermyself lucky.. however, I di have many close calls and many times a native helped me and my unit out. I love the Kurds.
I have lived with being mortared and rocketed (every night ) I have been on convoys were we found IED's but being construction engineers we took care of them. Being in the National Guard a lot of us have many different mos's combat engineer is just one of mine. I have seen the depravations of mans inhumanity tward man. I have seen dead bodies. I have seen the results of "Gang Rape" a punishment used in the middle east. One Iraqi man one whom I talked with daily had to kill his daught
I have found this blog to be very helpful. I; as many of you, have mixed feelings about The 'PH'. My Son served with the 2/14th CAL out of Ft. Lewis, WA Stryker Brigade. He was there 2004-2005. He was blown up in a Stryker 3 times. He has permanent neck Injuries, lost some eyesight in both eyes, and 30% hearing in one ear.
His CO would have recommended him for the PH, but he respectfully refused. He said that award was for his many fallen friends & comrades. So he refused.
The one thing he did accept was the Army Commendation Medal. He received this medal as a SPC….he is now a SGT and just deployed to Afhganistan Dec. 26th with a 6 man Transition Team out of Ft. Riley, KS. He left a big box with me this time…and as I went thru it, I found the Metal, and I read all the things my son had done in Iraq….all I could do was sit and cry. The things he did….and the bravery he showed….and how his decisions had vitally helped to complete missions….just blew me away. As a Mom, I think he deserves the PH….but after reading this Blog….I now know how he feels he does not deserve it.
Thanks for this forum…..and I ask that you all keep my Son in your prayers….I won't see him again until Feb. 2010.
Thanks;
Jen
Jen, bless you and your son. He's a living hero and you should proud of that. Thanks for sharing his story.
We should give the Purple Heart for PTSD. Just as we should give the Purple Heart for the non- invasive traumatic brain injuries associated with the current conflict.
TBI is different than PTSD and I agree SHOULD be grounds for Purple Heart, unlike PTSD which most Soldiers don't actually suffer from. most of them suffer from Post Traumatic Stress only.
They are different but share some similarity. The soldier with a non-invasive TBI might not even know it happened. There may be no blood or CSF leakage. The soldier, seeing no physical sign of an injury might skip medical treatment. The symptoms may not exhibit for days, weeks or months later. The soldier may not connect the symptoms to the causative event. The symptoms may be misdiagnosed as a purely psychological problem.
Be careful, Steve. It almost sounded you actually like our troops there! You're slipping. Must've been your image consultant talking.
I've got no problems with our soldier's. I support our soldier's, I don't support the War in Iraq or the War on Terror.
Unfortunately, for the soldier with a delayed diagnosis of NITBI they may never get their Purple Heart because they didn't report the injury when it happened. They may have been too shaken up or more concerned with accomplishing the mission to report to the medical facility. The classified section of the magazines of the American Legion, DAV and VFW frequently have requests looking to locate other service members who may have been present to verify a veteran's claim to the VA. I suspect some cases of PTSD are actually misdiagnosed cases of NITBI.
"I don't support the War in Iraq or the War on Terror." Perhaps you should head to the Middle East posthaste and ask the terrorists to stop then. I'm sure they'll listen to you. Just invite them over for tea or something.
I served 3 tours in Iraq, Afghanistan, and Africa. I also suffer from PTSD. I'm not sure the PH is right for PTSD but on the other hand making a "crazy" medal doesn't seem quite right either. There are ALOT of PH recipients that were injured by their own hand. I contemplated that too except I planned to die, it wasn't for a medal. PTSD resulting from combat situations probably should warrant PH as it causes far more injuries to the soldier then one gunshot in the butt. In fits of rage I have punched door frames and fractured my hand multiple times. PTSD has completely changed my life and how I live it on a daily basis. I had a close friend with PTSD shoot himself. It is a life altering mental injury that carries a stigma of shame with it. The award of PH to this injury is deserving and might help more of the soldiers with serious cases come forward before they drink their life away or end it with their 9mm. Thank you.
CJ-in reference to your article-"more deserving individuals"??? Okay-let me hit you with something here-My Grandfather was on a NAVY ship when it was struck by a German sub-sinking it to the bottom of the Atlantic-killing all but 11. That was over a 140 men killed instantly. My Grandfather received severe burns across his back while trying to escape through a hail of scalding steam in efforts to rescue others. He fought bravely on a sinking ship to free life rafts to rescue his men. The awesome individuals who award the PH didn't feel him deserving of it then or now. His life forever altered, but low and behold the large 3rd degree burn covering his back left little more than skin change. He was in the water for hours with his men and in recovery for weeks. Life saving and being blasted through the air by a torpedo from your bunk, receiving third degree burns in efforts to rescue others and defend them from the enemy-yeah-no medal for that guy. It makes me sick. There's someone who's deserving of it who will probably only be rewarded it after my husband and I fight for years and years to get it to him. ANd he's 90-so he'll probably not get to receive that honor himself. Now if that man were to say to you, that my husband who tried to end his life this year due to an "illness" as they like to refer to it-deserved it-would that change anything? PTSD is not an illness. It is a wound. I am not a United States Soldier. I would be proud to be one, but I am not fit because I was repeatedly raped as a child for a period of time that has literally made therapists cry. My PTSD is my wound. My open wound. My nightmares. My anxiety. My fears, and my pain. The point? I would never have volunteered for it. I would never have placed myself in the line of fire to suffer like this. So, I guess it's true-I'm not cut out to be a soldier. But to say that a man or woman who volunteers to put themselves in harms way, to fight for my freedom, for my protection, for the protection of their brothers and sisters in arms who may someday be like my Grandpa and have a family of 50-to say that man or woman only deserves high accommodation only if they shed blood? Disgusting. My Grandfathers back was sealed by the very oil he fought through-if not infection may have killed him and then I wouldn't be here. Other men from that ship and their grandchildren might not be here, but he doesn't deserve a PH by their standards. SO in my opinion- the system is already flawed. Severely. AND if it's bloodshed they seek, maybe look up some of those soldiers who blew their brains out or killed their spouses when they returned home. Is that bloodshed enough for them-of course not, there's a little on their hands so PTSD has to remain classified as an illness. For their own protection. It's complete crap, I wonder how many people shoot people they love because they have the flu. And I wonder if my Grandfather's lack of bloodshed makes him less worthy of the medal. I used to see a PH license plate and literally pull over like it was the President coming down the street. I would nod my head in silent thanks to their sacrifice, why should I now> They bleed so they reap reward? They're driving right? Normal functional members of society? My husbands not anymore. And I wonder if that old bullet hole is what's really hurting them-or if it's the memories, the nightmares and the permanent scar worn in their hearts, in their Purple HEARTS.
PollyGirl, that would not change my mind. However, I believe that your grandfather DOES deserve the PH and would be willing to help you fight to get it for him as soon as possible.
I'm very intimate with PTSD. I was the victim of armed robbery while on a mission in Ecuador. It was a difficult situation for me and I have nightmares and anxiety about being on dark streets or in large crowds. I can't sit in a restaurant with my back to the door or I get jittery.
After going to Iraq, I saw and did things that also affected my mental facilities. I was a dead man on three separate occasions. I made my peace that I would not live through the day. I prayed that my family would be taken care of. I cheated death while watching my buddies succumb to it. I suffer from insomnia and loud noises and crowds cause my heart to race. Recognizing this, I sought out ways to heal myself. One of those ways was starting this blog.
Yet, I don't feel like I deserve a PH. I'm no different than someone who uses PTSD as an excuse to hurt themselves or others. I'm no different than someone with PTSD who commits crimes or becomes antisocial. I simply don't agree that PTSD is a justification for the medal and seek positive ways to deal with my stress rather than negative ones. I've lived my life believing that the only way to get what I want is to help others get what they want. And, it's working!
But, your grandfather's case IS justification.
It's amazing to hear what all you've been through. I guess it's just a difference of opinion because I feel that your PTSD is a wound. The pains of physical wounds go away, they heal-but the emotional suffering rarely does. I respect your position, and I thank you and respect you for your service.
I would appreciate assistance with my Grandfather's PH more than anything, he is my hero in all definitions imaginable and I know that although he never gripes about it the recognition would mean a great deal to him. He often says that he'll have to settle for seeing his name lit up in TImes Square in 1942. He is the last remaining survivor of his ship, his shipmates have all since passed away but he is often contacted by family members of others aboard ship with questions. I will email you direct some of the information from the 40s. You can google the ship- USS JACOB JONES-SUNK 1942.
I was thrilled and honored to see that you share my feelings in regards to my Grandfather. I greatly appreciate it. He deserves to be honored, by more than just our family-but by the government and military he served so proudly. Even after that incident-as soon as he was recovered he immediately signed up for new orders and served in the Pacific Theatre. He is amazing, the kindest and most honorable man alive I think.
I know I’m a little late on this issue, but I just ran across this blog conversation and would like to offer my opinion on the subject as well.
My National Guard unit was deployed to Iraq as convoy security escorts from 04-05 at the height of the “Civil War” insurgent violence. We spent almost all of our time on the roads of Iraq in up-armored M1025 HMMWVs. While there I went through numerous mortar and rocket attacks on bases that we were staying at while on the road, had my vehicle hit by roadside bombs on three separate occasions, survived sniper attacks, potshots from punk kids, attempted hijackings, firefights and even had my vehicle shot the hell up in a couple of Blue on Blue incidents where the Marines over there couldn’t tell the difference between a convoy of 40 military vehicles and an insurgent car bomber.
I personally bore witness to the traumas that the local populace was subjected to by the insurgents, the opposing religious sects and the occupying military forces. While there I received a CAB and a “V” Bronze Star as well as a really bad case of PTSD.
I’ve been back for nearly 4 years and I still live through my experiences everyday. I don’t talk about these things to other people. Mainly because it is impossible to truly do justice to your experience with just words. Unless you were there experiencing the same situations and saw/heard/smelled/tasted/felt the same things you couldn’t really understand.
I never received a medal for an injury while I was over there; neither did the vast majority of my unit for any of the many injuries that we obtained while on the roads, because we were tough southern boys and unless you were completely taken out of commission you weren’t injured. The convoys had to get to there final destinations in one piece no matter what. Our command and admins weren’t very experienced in the bureaucracy of the full time military, so you didn’t get put in for a medal unless you damn near got killed. There wasn’t any procedures ever setup to make sure that injuries were reported and verified by an external source at the time of the incident. So we didn’t get Purple Hearts. Does that mean that we never earned them?
This same mentality held true for people who were going through emotional issues. PTSD was a running joke, it wasn’t something that you would ever admit to actually experiencing. Of course this was just before the military really started paying attention to TBI injuries and the long term problems that can arise from prolonged exposure to high stress situations.
I say all this to give insight into why I think that there needs to be more thought put into this decision on the Purple Heart. I don’t think that it should be given to persons suffering from mild to moderate PTSD symptoms. Not because it cheapens the medal, (don’t even get me started on that bull about the CAB cheapening the CIB or the way the National Guard still gets treated these days) but because I think that it would make light the injuries of those who have suffered truly grievous injuries. That being said I do think that persons suffering with severe PTSD should be classified with the latter. Prolonged exposure to stressful situations can cause physical damage to the structure of the brain. And you don’t have to still be in the situation that caused the stress in order for this to occur. I found while in Iraq that often I wouldn’t even notice that I was suffering from an injury until days after an incident. How long could it take in order for a brain to fully process the horror that a person went through.
Personally I would not want a Purple Heart for my PTSD. And to be sure I would not accept any medal specifically for emotional or mental injuries. But I do believe that there are people out there who suffer much more every day than some of the people that I know personally who’ve received a Purple Heart. More needs to be done for these individuals that would acknowledge the injuries that they and their families and loved ones suffer through daily.
Sorry for the long post, but it felt good to get a little of this off of my mind.
I have a couple questions for you all. I was out on a recon mission our truck was hit by a anti-tank land mine. The force of the blast caused me to hit my head on the gunner turret. Because of the force of my head hitting the turret I lost conciseness and have not been able to properly use everyday motor skills. I have problems keeping my balance. I have to take pills to sleep and I’ve also been given multiple pain and steroid shot in the back of my head. My skin was never broken therefore my question to you is, am I wounded? Should I be given a purple heart? Or should they say that nothing happen and let me finish my tour here in Afghanistan?
JD, Yes! That is a physical injury that should warrant the Purple Heart.
I don't know what to really say to all the troops who disagree with the PH being awarded to "us" PTSD troops. But this is what I do know, I know that I live a war day in and day out, that destroys my life, I have no life, and never again will I enjoy what is so called a life, because of my PTSD in IRAQ 03-04. I do RESPECT MY FELLOW BROTHERS AND SISTERS IN ARMS WHO HAVE PHSYICAL INJURIES, but I expect the same from them for my mental injury. I know this much, I do deserve the PH, and forever it will be, even if you disagree. Those of you who claim to have PTSD, but don't think you deserve the PH, you should feel ashamed, our injury is just as damaging if NOT MORE then a physical injury. We don't have to bleed on the battle field, we bleed every second we live, it's a ongoing battle that torments us for the rest of our battle scared lives. Don't listen to the physically injured soldiers, for they may steer you into believe you don't deserve the PH. If you really feel you earned the Purple Heart, I Say Wear It, Wear It With The Up Most Pride, because you deserve it, just the same as they do. Your no less a troop on the battle field. And don't get me fucking pissed about not earning the CAB, cause I'll come back with more words then you could ever imagine. Just try me, I'll take this all the way to the U.S. Supreme Court, and trust me, you don't want that. Leave us severe PTSD vets alone, leave us be, I have no life, and never will cause of that horrific shit war, I wear the PH on my heart, like it or not, I earned it. I don't need a Paper saying I earned it, God gave it to me, try taking that away.
Whoever wrote this SH*T article and insulted those of us with PTSD can fu*k the fu*k off. If you have a problem with it, you can visit me at 503 Walnut St. in Medicine Bow, Wyoming. How dare you.
Funniest part? The guy who wrote this article. . .has PTSD!
Great language, btw. I'm sure your mother would be proud.
Hey, butt nugget, can you send me your zip code? I'd like to just mail your ass whooping! And I can do it too since I apparently insulted myself with this post and I'm pretty pissed about that. I'll take it out on you since you offered. Why don't you shut your whining mouth and man up, bro!? Get some help and stop looking for handouts. Use some of that individuality and responsibility the Army gave you.
Wow. I am amazed at all the self entitled b.s. on this posting. PTSD being awarded with a Purple Heart is NOT about how you are some walking miracle and can handle it so everyone else should. It isn't about how YOU don't think the systems are worthy of acknowledgement. The fact of the matter is this: many soldiers would not suffer from PTSD if it wasn't for the time they have spent in a combat zone. Do you really think that deserves to go unnoticed? Why are the wounds that bleed more worthy than the wounds that don't? I know a guy who got a purple heart for a wound (required TWO stitches) he received on his base camp while running AWAY from the explosions. TWO stitches. So don't tell me you don't think it should be awarded due to the fact that it is easy to fake. That gentleman that I referred to insisted he get an award and he got it. How is his wound more worthy than Private Snuffy who will never sleep another decent night? Man, ignorance makes me mad.