CJ New ASU Suffer Soldiers' Backlash
September 26th, 2008 by CJ
I'm not sure what everyone is complaining about with respect to the new Army Service Uniform (shown right). John of Argghhh! even went so far as to call it a "mall guard uniform" to General Bergner during the Milblog Conference. The uniform is virtually identical to the current dress blues for enlisted Soldiers (shown left), with three small differences. Most notably, the new ASU uses low-waisted trousers exclusively, instead of the current choice of low- or high-waisted trousers. On Soldiers in the rank of Specialist and below, the pants will NOT contain a gold trouser leg ornamentation. Only NCOs and Officers will have these. There is virtually no change for officers from the Dress Blue uniform to the new Army Service Uniform.
Second, the service stripes that used to wrap around each sleeve of the jacket for enlisted Soldiers have been replaced with the Army Green service hashes. Not only does this allow for service time as the Class A uniform did, but it also provides space for the overseas service bars (called combat stripes by some) on the right sleeve. While I wish that the Army had chosen to keep the historical wrap-around service stripes, this is only a minor change.
Third, and finally, is the placement of the "Combat Service Identification Badge". At first, I had mixed reviews of this myself, but then I got to thinking about it. No longer will Soldiers have to worry about sewing patches on and off their Class uniform, ruining the jacket as they move from unit to unit. Those of you who have PCS'd from 1st Cav to some place like 3rd ID know what I'm talking about. The sleeves get ruined by the constant sewing and removing of unit patches and the holes left from previous larger patches are eyesores. From now on, the only "patch" that will need to be changed would be the CSIB. And even that would be a matter of choice if a Soldier has deployed to combat with more than one unit.
No one ever complained about the Dress Blue uniform, so why is everyone so upset with the ASU? It's virtually the same uniform!
I noticed that the guy on the right has his pants tucked into his boots and the guy on the left does not. That makes it look less "dressy" but I don't know if that matters or not. Just something I noticed.
The bloused boots is for Airborne units.
Tracy, the only reason the guy on the right has his trousers tucked in is because he's Airborne. Most troops will not tuck in their trousers like that. I don't like it either. I think it's always looked tacky, even in the greens.
see, I knew there was a reason, I just didn't know what it was LOL
That's EXACTLY what I was thinking when I read John's post about the new uniform! It's very much like the current Blues, which I love. The tucked-in pants for Airborne looks out of place with the Blues, and the smaller service stripes aren't quite as impressive as the wrap-around stripes, but otherwise, I like the new look. I've never been a fan of the Greens, but love the Blues, so maybe that's why.
Have you seen the stuff without the jacket, though? Including the pinning of badges to the stomach?
Army Sergeant,
Yes, but it's no difference than the current Class A uniform for recruiters and drill sergeants. It's the exact same placement, just adding another pin for the combat badge.
I've quoted you and linked to you here: consul-at-arm...acklash.html
-The seam to seam service stripes are part of the alure & tradition of the blues, KEEP 'em!
-The changing of shoulder patches with each assignment is why you get a Clothing Maintenance Allowance – live with it!
-Overseas Service Bars already have a ribbon – why duplicate!
-Combat Service bars can be replaced by another ribbon!
-How will a 'Retiree' show that they are not on active duty anymore?
Mall Guard is good, wish I had thought of it!
I've noticed a couple of comments on the Overseas Service Bars throughout this thread… thought I'd make a note (sorry in advance for the length!):
The Overseas Service Bars denote 6 months of creditable service in a designated combat zone. This is not duplicated anywhere else on the uniform. Please let me explain-
The Overseas Service Ribbon denotes an individual tour (usually 1 year hardship or 2-3 years accompanied) to an overseas duty location. Campaign medals denote participation in certain named campaigns – campaign stars can be added to certain medals, but do not indicate how long an individual was actually there (simply participation in one or more named campaigns covered by the medal). The Shoulder Sleeve Insignia-Former Wartime Service (SSI-FWS) denotes at least 30 days creditable service in various combat zones (unless the Soldier was injured… but that's another story)… but again, does not indicate how long a Soldier has been in combat. The Combat Infantry/Action/Medic Badges all indicate honorable service while engaging or engaged by the enemy… but again, do not indicate how long the Soldier was there… and only one award may be given for each Operation.
The list goes on… however, the function served by the OSB remains unique on the uniform.
As to replacing the Overseas Service Bars with another ribbon… that is certainly a possible answer. My personal opinion on that is using a ribbon may end up diluting the visual impact; a tower of OSB's makes a much more dramatic visual impact to me than a long line of bronze, silver, or gold oak leaf clusters.
I hope this clears things up a little. Thanks for the interest, and have a good one!
James,
According to Army AR 600-8-22, Army Awards, the Overseas Service Ribbon is now authorized for successful completion of an overseas tour per TCS or PCS orders, regardless of length, and regardless of whether a separate award (i.e. campaign) is authorized.
In addition, according to Army AR 670-1, Army Uniforms, the former SSI-FWTS (combat patch) which is being replaced by the CSIB aslo had a change recently (Appendix F). This change is significant, now completely eliminating the time period required – meaning from day one in theater – and only allowing credit from your organic unit – meaning the patch you wear going into theater is the only one you can wear as your "combat" patch – These are a new changes, but they contradict your post.
Bill, this new uniform is not meant for the retired Soldiers, as hard as that is to admit. It is meant for today's Soldiers. Why would you want to wear a uniform you never wore in service anyway? I loved it when my grandfather came to my military functions wearing his WWII uniform instead of trying to keep up with all the changes. A retiree can show they are no longer on active duty any more by wearing the uniform they retired with.
As for the clothing maintenance allowance, why should we have to live with it? Our clothing allowance is barely enough to cover the combat uniforms as it is, much less having to care for uniforms ruined because of needless and constant alterations. Why continue a problem to be paid for than solve a problem that will save money?
You have a very good point with regard to the overseas service bars. I think the ribbon says it all and we should have kept the wrap-around sleeve bars.
CJ,
I gotta say I am not a fan. I was even one of the few soldiers that was surveyed late last year and I gave my input, but it was not this. I think they should have kept the grey shirt for everyday wear and white for formal only. Also, they need to agree to one headgear, keep the large service stripes and dumb the pin on combat badge/pin thingy.
I hate the ASU. It takes away from the historical significance of unit patches. For soldiers that have not been to combat they will no longer be able to wear the non-subdued unit patch taking away a lot of history with it. The pin on combat badge on the females looks dumb since it is only a couple inches above the waist. We need to keep the full size service stripes. Also the blue pants with white shirt looks really bad. When you have a lot of decorations it looks terrible, like a clown costume. They need to keep the blues the way they were and bring back the old kahki tan color uniforms from WWII. The Marines have not changed their uniforms why do we have to keep changing ours. Lets keep some history for once!
If we want to go to a uniform "rooted in tradition" then lets not go with the mall guard uniform and go with the pinks and greens from WWII. Unlike the abomination above, the pink and greens looks like a uniform that you would be proud to wear, not, I'm in this monkey suit for 40,000 for college. Even the class A's you where proud to wear. I am proud of the uniform I wear (not the ACU's, that's another story for another day), it was uncomfortable yes, but, I carried myself with pride in it, I never looked at it and thought to myself, you can't be serious. The combat patch is on the stomach, who came up with this madness? For all those who say it looks exactly like the blues, you obviously didn't gag when you first saw the picture, the beret just doesn't work with it, the Blues are meant for functions that would probably require a nice suit that requires a bow tie.. something Joe wouldn't attend. So Joe gets a uniform that looks good and can be worn to weddings, funerals, church, I don't know what else and looks professional. The best way I can put it, its like wearing a suit with tails to a funeral, its just not practical and that's what I think when I see the ASU's. (clown suit sounds more deserving) It isn't a practical uniform, it doesn't scream I have pride when I wear this, it doesn't tell me that he/she is a Soldier. We are talking pride here and the ASU just does not deliver.
David… if you are only in this "monkey suit" for the 40,000 college then shut up. Your opinion means nothing. In fact, it degrades the opinions of those that actually matter. If you did a little research you would see that the blues are a homage to the tradition of the army of the past, from the revolution until the late 19th century.
I might be one of the few here who are not that impressed with the WW2 uniforms. Olive drabe color looks ugly. The Khaki pants had a pink tinge too them that I though quit odd. The enlisted uniforms were even uglier then the current fugly green Class A's. There really is no reason any more to wear green uniforms any way. Why do we need a green uniform any way? Am I completely happy with the Blue ASU? No! But its a start in the right direction. Return to the AArmy's roots, go blue!!!
I am writing for three comments I keep hearing troops complain about. I keep hearing all of the comments about the Army not staying with tradition and the we should go back to the WW II dress uniform. Yes, the WW II uniform was a very stylish uniform. If you try to put all the overweight troops in them it would not be as appealing as you think. If you look up the heritage of the dress blue uniform you will find it dates back to 1779. This was the uniform worn until 1902. In 1954, the official dress uniform became the dress greens. At that time, the blues became the official uniform for specialty services such as the honor guard. The troops stating that the uniform is not staying with traditions are way off mark.
Next, is the beret, get over it. The beret is the official headgear! Learn to wear it properly an wear it with pride. In my opinion by troops wearing it incorrectly and complaining about it, is like saying that the black beret worn by the Army Rangers was not a big deal. It was changed to all troops to unify and inspire. Lastly for the combat id badge on the blues. It is not mandatory to wear it. If you don't like the placement, don't wear it. Simple.
As a senior NCO, what do you say to people who DO wear the beret properly and with pride and still don't like it? Are we not allowed to express any opposition to something a HUGE majority of troops don't like? Personally, I like the blues and I'm glad it's becoming the official uniform.
By the way it's the 1st CD not 1st Cav. The 1st Cav is commanded by a LTC and the 1st CD is commanded by an MG.
Thank you for your time and attention.
A former First Teamer of the 1CD
It is entirely fine to call it "1st Cav". Nobody assumes you are refering to a Regiment, as they would if you said 7th Cav. Also a Regiment isn't commanded by a LTC, squadrons are. Also if you call it "The Cav" people know what you are talking about.
A former DivCav First Teamer from the 1st CAV
The complaint is not the ASU it is the loss of the Green Uniform I hear soldiers and veterans’ complain about. I am sure when the old Brown and "pinks" uniforms were eliminated the same happened. My father told me of the uproar when the Eisenhower Jacket was discontinued. Take it for what it's worth.
Yea I am sure guys back in 1902 were flipping about getting rid of the blues as a service uniform. Here are my future predictions or those are things I want to see happen.
1. I think the Army will bring back the Khakis for everyday wear in places like the Pentagon. The Blues will still be the issued uniform.
2. Service Cap will become issue for all Soldiers and will replace the beret.
3. A belt will be added to the jacket.
4. CSIB will be dropped or moved up to replace the DUI.
5. The big wrap around stripes will be brought back.
6. The white shirt will be replaced for another color and kept for tropical postings.
As an officer I don't mind the changes overall, but what I do find offensive is the fact that officers no longer where their unit's DUI. In reference to everyone's uniform, no one is authorized to wear unit "patch"/"badge" to denote the unit they are currently assigned. There needs to be a "belly badge" on the other side to denote the unit one is currently assigned to. Without these how are we suppose to build esprit de corps?
As a PL, CO CDR, XO or BN CDR I now have no affliation what so ever with the unit I am commanding/leading in.
I JUST WISH THE ARMY WOULD MAKE UP ITS MIND AS TO WHAT UNIFORM WE ARE SUPPOSED TO WEAR. AS FOR THE BLACK BERET, I WAS PISSED TO SEE IT GO TO EVERYONE BUT WHAT CAN YOU DO, JUST WISH THAT THOSE WHO HAVE NEVER BEEN WITH AN A/B OR RANGER BAT OR SF ASK HOW TO PROPERLY TAKE CARE SHAPE AND WEAR THEM.
The black beret was originally for tankers and they were pissed to see it go to some ground pounders. Black berets are not stained by rease and takers are covered in grease. As for shaping berets, why would I ask the SF when they do everything in their power not to wear the uniform or shave or render proper military courtesy.
Personally, I voted for the pinks & greens, but I don't have much control over things like this… I would have kept the grey shirt, SSI and SSI-FWTS but the full stripes weren't in keeping with honoring what each soldier has done for his/her Army as far as deployments go (one of the biggest factors in today's Army). The metal badges on the belly/waistline have only the one pro, and many cons (less cost over time, but you still have to buy new ones).
Summary:
- Go back to grey shirts
- Bring back the shoulder patches
- Keep the Green ribbons on the forearms
~ Basically, take the accessories of the Greens and put them on a more tailored, classically-colored uniform
The blues will be a fine service uniform with some minor changes.
I have read some of your comments and agree with some. I personally think that we should have left the beret to the Rangers. They earned it!! I especially agree with the fact that the Marines have not changed their uniforms so why are we changing ours. When a marine wears his/her uniform you can definitely see the pride. Bring back the combat patch and unit patch. Go back to WWII or stick with the green. Stop changing the unifors. Oh by the way. Go back to the BDU. The current ACU looks awful. We look like a bunch of wrinkled clothes – velcro coming off, dirty boots that cannot clean properly. Where is the pride
I hate to hear about everyone complain about choosing a uniform that is consistent with our history. The ASU and Dress Bluse date back to 1775.
The black beret dates back to the 1920s when the tanker corps origiannly wore them followed by the rest of the armored forces. It wasn't until 1975 that it became affiliated with just the Rangers.
Our leaders change the uniforms to represent a change in the mindset of such a large fighting force. They try their best to keep within our traditions while they do this.
I do like the look of the "blues" but some of changes I don't agree with. One is the position of the Combat Service Identification Badge. Why not put it and your current unit on the shoulders? It looks tacky having it on the jacket. It looks even worse on the female jacket. I have also noticed that if you aren't in an airborne unit the NCO has to wear the service hat (or as I call it the bus driver hat). Since we are stuck with the beret why not make it the head gear for the ASU. It looks better with the ASU than with the duty uniform, unless you are in the airborne, special forces or rangers which are elite units, keep the patrol cap for garrison wear.
I'm an infantryman who was attached to different ODA teams while deployed. Is there a CSIB for SF units?
There is an awful lot of emotion with the change to the ASU. I can say, at first I was very resistant to the idea of it. I believed that the greens were just fine, although uncomfortable. However, there is a good amount of talk about "pride".
I don't think that pride in our service comes from our uniforms. Sure a disheveled uniform is not only out of regs, but it does take away from our image as a whole. I too dislike the ACU uniform, but it's what we have now. I can't say I one hundred percent back the ASU, but it's what we've got. So be it.
My pride comes from somewhere else though. If the Army that I love outfitted me in rags and sent me out, that's okay. Clothes don't make the man. My pride comes from knowing that I'm part of something much bigger than anything most people will ever understand. My pride comes from knowing, my brothers in arms and I are ready to do whatever we have to for our great nation.
I understand that a lot of people have a desire to have devices that display their combat service. All I can say to that is, to each their own. I personally don't wear my combat patch on my ACUs. No need for me to advertise to anyone that I've been over. It's a part of the job that we all willingly signed up for. I would listen to anyone just the same, whether they deployed or not, and I expect the same from others.
The new uniforms, love or hate them, are here. Anytime the Army changes something there will always be those who sit on one side of the fence or the other. The only thing we can do is accept it and soldier on.
Do I "have" to wear a combat patch on my Dress Greens? I have been deployed but, I dont care to wear the combat patch. Thanks for all the comments.
this new uniform is a JOKE….. there is a reason that the "Old Guard" has stricter height and weight standards. just wait till some of those 5'4" soldiers on the overweight program start running around in dress blues. you know the ones i'm talking about. they make up about 5-10% of every company. sure the combat arms units are a little better off but i assure you its going to be ugly. Hell, there are still knuckleheads that can't wear that stupid beret after 10 years. At least the greens somewhat covered up those "chunky" soldiers. the good news is i'll have retired before these are mandatory…..god help us all….
All I can say as a former Army soldier is that the new ASU is fine except that the current unit patch and the combat patch should still be on the shoulders like they are with the green uniform. I don't like the white shirt either but I can live with that.
I like the Dress blues that the Honor Gurad wear at the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier. The tunic is a bit longer, doesn't have junk all over it in unorderly locations, and has a belt to sinch down the middle for a very tight, sharp look. The new ASU basically took that unifrom and mutilated it. Use of the beret with it only looks tacky. Instead, why not just have colors for the band on the cap of the old blues? I hate the direction the Army is going in; lower standards. The ACU was bad enough.
I think the new ASU is a terrible mistake. I like the dress blues; they look great. The ASU with the jacket on (ie, the "class A") looks great too. BUT, the "class B" uniform is 100% mall cop. Look at the cover of the movie "Mall Cop," and what do you see? Oh, that's right, its the class b ASU with a flag on the shoulder.
Many of you don't wear this uniform everyday, but for those of us who do, I am embarrassed to wear this uniform and feel naked without the jacket on. I am treated like security guard wherever I go. A colored shirt (either gray or tan) would make a world of difference! I'll be trying to wear my old green class B's until 2014!!
i took my class blues and just converted by swapping the service stripes and combat stripes. iam going to wear the old pants that used to have the suspenders instead of the one with the belt. Is that okay? how would any one know. if i did not take my jacket off.
You're allowed to wear the suspender pants as long as you don't remove the jacket, so you're okay.
Just go ack to the wold war II uniform. Brown coat and khaki trouses. Very cool looking.