CJ Army IG System Unwieldy and Unhelpful
April 29th, 2009 by CJ
As many of you know, I am in the midst of an IG complaint – at least according to one of the worst formatted official letters I've ever received. I've made now two phone calls to the POC listed on my complaint and neither of them were fruitful.
IG will not answer either generic or specific questions about a complaint AGAINST ME!! I'm the subject of the allegations and no one will give me ANY information whatsoever.
The IG process is plain and simple an ambush process. I am required to sit on my ass and "wait until someone comes and talks to me". About what? These two broad "allegations" that do not point to specific acts? When someone comes and talks to me, am I going to have time to look up specifically what I am accused of?
Even the simple question of "when was the complaint filed?" would not be answered by the IG. I don't care who made the complaint. I don't care where the complaint was filed. I would just like to know WHEN the complaint was filed so I can track how long one of these things takes to work itself out.
When I called, I was informed by a Captain (O-3) on the other end of the line that the POC (point of contact) for my complaint has left the unit. I then asked who was now handling my case and she informed me that she was. When I asked simple questions about timelines, she put me on hold and then a Lieutenant Colonel came on the line.
Again, I asked when the complaint was filed so I can track at least how long this takes. "I can't tell you that," was the response. They were both very rude and unhelpful. You know how you talk to some people and ask a question and they give you one word answers that only seem to create more questions? That's IG!
Obviously, the IG process is not a fair process. We get more information out of the military as it relates to interrogation and mission specifics than we do out of a simple complaint – and I'm the subject of the investigation. Yet, I'm not allowed to know anything about my own case. I'm not allowed to prepare my defense. I'm not allowed to confront my accuser. I'm supposed to simply sit idly by and let the broken, racist policy work! All this from an organization who's motto is "Right, then forward".
To my supporters, continue to stand by. I'm still absolutely confident this will blow away. Please do not call anyone on my behalf. I can handle this for now. To the cowardly, selfish individual who caused all this, I hope you're enjoying yourself. I know I am. When this is all over, the only thing that will save you is your anonymity. Hopefully, you have a conscience that will torment you in place of public humiliation.
Tags: freedom of speech, IG Complaint, Soldier rights
Posted in Military Law, Military Perspective
WTF??? Send me a phone number.
Typical! Ayup…sounds like the typical IG's office at any base in the nation. BTDT! Just thank your lucky stars you aren't working with JAG. They are the worst at giving information, taking information, and handling things professionally. I do find it extremely unprofessional for the IG to have given a complaint to someone who wasn't even going to see the complaint through the process. Looks like your local office has a case of "head up butt!"
Good luck…I feel your pain.
Well, cj, as ironic as it sounds re your situation with IG, you have much in common with the situations that many Gitmo detainees find themselves. Who'da thunk!
Only you can compare my situation to that of illegal combatants. It's actually NOTHING like my situation at all. I am nowhere near a combat zone and not a detainee.
Hang tough, CJ. This will pass.
NY-David
keep you in my prayers.
Let us know when we need to do something to help.
Good Luck to you CJ I hope you soon get answers to your question and that this will just go away and nothing will happen to you.
In the first place, let’s look at this through the lens of the Military Environment. You sound to me like you haven’t been in the Army for very long, as you obviously don’t understand the IG System. One thing to keep in mind is that a military IG does NOT function like an IG in the civilian world. In the military, the IG functions simply as an INVESTIGATIVE body; it doesn’t have a direct disciplinary function. It can RECOMMEND that charges be preferred against you, but it is up to your Chain of Command to actually prefer charges against you. Before those charges can be formally preferred, you must have an Article 32 Hearing, and it will be as a result of that Article 32 Hearing that charges will either be preferred, or dropped. This functions along the lines of a Grand Jury in the civilian world. Until you have had your Article 32 Hearing, you have not been charged.
As for your ability to address your accusers, that is what Courtmartials are for. Many people view a Court Martial as simply being the Military’s version of a Criminal Trial – and it is to a great extent – but (unlike its civilian counterpart) it is also your single chance to protect your reputation and your career. This is especially true for NCOs and Commissioned Officers, who have a lot more to lose than do Junior Enlisted Personnel. Once the IG finishes the Investigation, your Commander will be informed of the results, and you will be brought in for your Article 32 Hearing. It will be at that hearing that you will be informed of the nature of the investigation. If the Commander finds that there are sufficient grounds to believe that you have violated the Uniform Code of Military Justice, then he will inform you of the Charges, get you a JAG Lawyer, and then give you your opportunity to Plead Guilty or Not Guilty. The ONLY way you can either be found NOT GUILTY, or GUILTY WITH AN EXPLANATION is to request a Court Martial. If you accept Punishment under Article 15, and you can PROVE you are not guilty, accepting punishment under Article 15 will only establish unconditional Guilt. Likewise, admitting guilt in a Court Martial under the same circumstances will again establish unconditional guilt.
Not Guilty means that you absolutely did not commit the violation charged, and you were not involved in any way with it. If you did commit the violation, but for good legal reasons acceptable to the military, or did not commit the violation, but were involved in any way with its commission for good legal reasons acceptable to the military, then GUILTY WITH AN EXPLANATION is your only route.
Anyway you look at it, you will NOT achieve justice except through a Courtmartial.
SSG Seon, Thanks for the information. I'm a 15 year 1SG so I'm very aware of the Article 15/Court Martial/Article 32 process. I think I've got a day or two under my belt, thank you very much. I'm also pretty read up on the IG process. You missed my purpose completely.
The IG system – though it's only an investigative system – still looks into allegations. And when those allegations against a person, that individual deserves to understand exactly what they being investigated on regardless of whether that's the way it works or not.
Because, if the IG investigation turns into something like an Article 32 or non-judicial punishment at least that person already knows what he/she is up against. The IG process is very biased against the "subject". The bottom line is that if someone is being investigated for allegedly breaking a rule, they deserve to know what the rules are they allegedly broke, especially when it comes to allegations of subversion!
1SG Grisham.
I first heard about you in the “From The Ranks†column in the May 11th Issue of Army Times. The fact that you and the person doing the blog were the same person didn’t quite click until you sent the reply I am responding to. I then Googled your blog name, and found your interview in the “Patriotic Mom†blog.
Just so you get a feel for where I am, you joined the Regular Army the year AFTER I transferred from the New York Army National Guard to the Retired Reserve, where I finished out my planned 41 years. I turned 60 last December, so I am now on the Army Retired list, and am drawing a Pension. I joined the Regular Army in 1967 as a 71N, served a tour in Vietnam with 5th Trans Cmd, a tour with USAEUR in Germany, and a TDY tour in Okinawa as part of the team that prepared Okinawa for its return to Japan. I was subject to a Reduction In Force (RIF) in 1975, so I transferred to the New York Army National Guard. I started with them as a 71N, but retrained later as a 54B. My unit Deployed to Saudi Arabia as an attachment to the 101st Airborne for Desert Shield/Desert Storm in 1990-91, and I transferred to the Retired Reserve in 1994.
Returning to you for a minute, the fact that you made 1SG in 15 years tells me that you were fast tracked to your current position – probably because of your Bronze Star and your Combat Commendations – which says that you are good at what you do. HOWEVER, how you are reacting to the IG Complaint tells me that you still have some seasoning to accomplish.
In the first place, the fact that you were approached with the information that you were under investigation by the IG tells me that someone in the IG “leaked†that information. Why? Because – as you stated – the complaint was filed by one or more individual complainants, which means that it was a Personal complaint, NOT a Duty Complaint. Such a complaint is ordinarily made with the expectation that their identity will be protected because if the Troops knew that they would be exposed by the IG to the person they are complaining about, they are much less likely to be willing to come forward with such complaints, which is counterproductive to the whole IG process. For this reason, such complaints have always been kept confidential until the Investigation is complete, and the Article 32 Hearing is held.
At the present stage, the only person who is tasked with the duty to judge the quality of the complaint is the IG, and the IG will prefer charges against the complainant if the complainant is judged to have filed a false complaint. For that reason, and a few others, whoever told you that you were under investigation by the IG – considering that it was a personal complaint, not a duty complaint – violated OPSEC by leaking the information to you.
As to the point about your seasoning, especially since you have some civilians among your readers who may not be aware of the Constitutional and Legal provisions that govern the Military that have no applicability outside of the Military, it is unfair to place your complaint on this blog UNLESS you are also going to explain the rules of the system you serve under, and swore to uphold. I know from my experience that the military Justice system often seems to be unfair, and many errors are committed, and it can seem to be positively Byzantine to a civilian, but there is a system in place that will balance things out in the long run, if not in the short run.
Leaving all that aside, it has occurred to me that you may be facing this issue because of something a serving Commissioned Officer has done. Do you think you are being investigated because of your Blog and your Broadcasting? I ask that because there is an Officer who joined the suit against President Obama earlier this year which questioned his Citizenship. The suit was shot down by the Supreme Court, and he faces “Contemptuous Words†charges under the UCMJ. As a result of that, it is not unreasonable to assume that you and any other Soldier with a Blog and/or a Radio show are now under investigation by the IG if for no other reason than the fact that they are making sure that no one else is flirting with a “Contemptuous Words†charge as he is, or violating the Free Speech Limitations that are based on the language of Article 1, Section 8, Clause 14 of the US Constitution.
SSG Seon, first off please don't refer to me as 1SG Grisham in this forum. I do NOT wear rank in here and I am just CJ. If people want to speak to me officially, they can utilize official channels and speak to me in a way that I am required to show respect or deference. Here, none is inferred and none is guaranteed. I refer to the fact that I am a First Sergeant in my day job, but I do not post as such on here, merely as a basis of context. Secondly, I was on the fast track well BEFORE I earned my Bronze Star and other combat commendations. I was promoted to SFC before those awards were ever factored into my competence or accomplishments. I am on the fast track because everything I've done in the military I've done above and beyond what is expected of me. I actually read regulations and policies and lead accordingly. As a Private, I operated at the level of a Sergeant. When I was a Sergeant, a Staff Sergeant, and so on. "Seasoning" is a matter of perspective and has nothing to do with experience or perspective. I've seen many 20+ year NCOs who were completely clueless. Why? Because they had time but no experience. Likewise, I've seen some junior enlisted Soldiers who – in absence of a uniform – I would have assumed to be an officer or senior enlisted Soldier. The key to my success is experience and knowledge. I wasn't content staying in the same job for years on end. My average assignment in the Army has lasted just over 2.5 years. In my profession, I've held every possible job title there is and some that were outside the scope of my MOS. I would respectfully request that you don't speak out of ignorance by using the chest candy given to me as a sole basis for my success in moving up the enlisted chain. My Soldiers are what got where I am today. My leaders for whom I worked recognized my abilities. Not only do I have 15 years of active service, but I also grew up under the shadow of a Senior Noncommissioned Officer in the Navy – my father – who mentored and guided me through my career and life. I also was a member of the JROTC program in high school which provided a base of knowledge that put me ahead of my peers in basic training and my first unit. I would say that my knowledge of the military is quite extensive from many different fronts.
With that said, don't interpret this as disrespect. I'm truly grateful for all the service you've listed here. You left me with a nation worth protecting and a military that is unparalleled throughout the world in strength, respect, and honor. I will not publish mine specifically because I won't get into a tit for tat service argument. My service is my own and I don't need to glorify it. Everyone's military service is just as noble and appreciated as everyone else's (except for the subversives and seditionists who prefer AWOL to honorable service). Some just get different opportunities than others.
Nothing was ever "leaked" to me. I received a letter from the IG outlining the "allegations" against me. So, I was supposed to know I was under investigation. I have never asked, here or in person to the IG directly, the identity of the individual or individuals making the complaint. All I have asked for – which I think is quite reasonable – is exactly what I've said that led to those "allegations" and WHEN the "allegations" were filed so I can get a sense of a timeline. I don't think it's an "unseasoned" thing to ask for a simple date. As a result of my day job, I have a lot of things that I need to do and knowing a simple timeline will help me with time management of this and other issues I confront on a daily basis. So, no one violated OPSEC since I received a formal memorandum on IG letterhead with a POC name and phone number that was delivered directly to my home. Since we're talking about seasoning, I would think that a seasoned leader would seek to gather all the facts before making such assumptions.
Next, I will address another of your ignorant statements about my "seasoning". My audience is well aware of the rules that govern me as an active duty military blogger. Why? Because I've published the very rules that dictate my correspondence in the past. I've posted DODD 1344.10, AR 530-1, and elements of the UCMJ in the past. I've also posted my oath numerous times. You won't find a much more informed audience than mine if you're willing to look instead of reading one post before you start poking holes in my "seasoning". I definitely didn't get where I am today with fly-by-night whims and half-truths. There is also a reason I boldly display my disclaimer and policies at the top of this and other websites where I write.
Let me make it really simple for you. I'm in the position simply because someone doesn't agree with my OPINION. Period! There really isn't much more to it. I am aware of the officer to whom you refer and can assure you I have no part in that. That's none of my business.
Finally, the Constitution. You would be hard pressed to find a Soldier more dedicated to the tenets of the Constitution than this one. I carry a very well-worn copy of this document that I've sworn my life to protect everywhere I go. I keep it in my left breast pocket (if anyone finds me dead, please keep it safe). I also have a copy of the Manual for Courts Martial on my desk right next to my phone that is equally well-worn. So, I fail to see your point.
First of all 1SG, you are a Soldier 24/7!! So I take offense when you say that the Army is your "Day Job." What kind of shit is that?! I have no idea what you're being accused of, but whatever it is, you probably did (if you're anything like my 1SG). Quit blogging about your personal problems and grow the f*#k up. I only found this retarded blog because i am looking up information on how to file an IG complaint. Sounds like you want to know the timeline, because you commit this offense often & want to know which Soldier finally turned you in. You are an embarrassment to the US Army. Get a life!
Well, I'll tell you what Mr. Soldier 24/7. Since you believe that, maybe I should pursue UCMJ action against you for that language. Since you're a Soldier 24/7, I could easily just contact your command there in Germany and have them charge you with Article 91, Insubordinate conduct toward warrant officer, noncommissioned officer, or petty officer. What do you think of that? I mean you're the one talking out of your ass there, Sergeant. Let's go ahead and play your 24/7 game, shall we?
I think I see already why you are having trouble with your 1SG and I'm pretty sure he/she isn't the problem at this point.
Before I even read your response above, I realized a few things:
1. I never should have written to you while I was so angry.
2. I should have done more research before opening my big mouth. I actually agree with you & feel sorry that you are being treated the way you our by the Army. I only read the comments above & did not read about your struggles.
3. I am never disrespectful & I was totally out of line for writing what I wrote.
I wish to rephrase my comment above:
I do not have a problem at all with my current 1SG. It was actually my last 1SG who impregnated a PFC. My 1SG now is a great leader & I would not trade him for any other. My problem is with an Officer who has been talking about me to Jr Enlisted. I was so angry at the time I found out about it, that I wanted to file an IG complaint. After a few days, though, I realized that I should probably just confront her & see what the problem is. I guess that is the mature/professional thing to do. IG seems like a cowardly way out & I sincerely apologize for being disrespectful. Although I do not know your circumstances, the complaint does sound shady (especially if it was an anonymous complaint). I have not been in the Army long, but since I have been I have come to realize that it sure isn't always fair. It seems like you are guilty until proven innocent. In the future, I will calm down & think before I make a stupid comment. I do hope for the best with your situation & hope you get the answers you deserve.
Ok, i am LAUGHING OUT LOUD at the 180 on that! You were right, Cj.
It's funny that he took the time to read the comments, but not what the comments were about. We will definitely talk about it when you call me today.
Your frustration is understandable. After reading the article, it actually appeared as though you were new to the workings of the military and I definitely did not think you were a 1SG. Believe it or not, the military is tried and true in "Hurrying up and waiting". So the process may be lengthy due to the IG gathering additional information on the claim. But you posted this in April 2009, I can't imagine why it would be taking so long. If anything, the IG is in the wrong for not resolving the complainants issue in a timely manner. I filed an IG complaint against my leadership while deployed, and my situation was resolved in less than 2 weeks. I wouldn't worry about the Who, When or the Where. After all of this time, the allegations were probably unfounded OR you could be under investigation as we speak.
You guys are pathetic. You all call yourself soldiers? Bitching and groaning and trying to compare who has the bigger "Swords" (Spaceball's line) I did this I did that. What the hell. You just sound like a bunch of REMFs that have no purpose in life. Like some already told you, grow up. You are all talking about how the other is breaking some type of rule or other. You are all wrong for airing out Army's dirty laundry. By the way CJ, there is a regulation that does tell you that you should not discuss military matters with others. I do not know the details and I do not care. This is a one way conversation. I to found this on accident. I to have problems with IG, they say they are not able to help in any means. All they did was call the finance clerks and told them what I already told them so I do feal your pain, yes, I know, different matters. Sure, I just had to write to all of you complaining about the Army. I just got screwed because some clerk miss read a regulation and took years of one of my entitlements away all at once. I still am An American Soldier. I do not bite the hand that feeds me and do not take a dump where I sleep. Golden rules of soldiers. I guess you are just a bunch of desk-jockey’s playing soldiers in off time on the weekends’ once in awhile. Do not bother trying to make me feel small or try to throw some regs my way. I know plenty of them and could play this childish game all day long. I will never check if you replied to this. I do not care. I just wanted to tell all of you arguing about who did what that you are acting like private's, 2 days in the service telling war stories from basic training.
"You are all wrong for airing out Army's dirty laundry. By the way CJ, there is a regulation that does tell you that you should not discuss military matters with others."
Says the guy that just aired out his dirty laundry. For the record, there is NO regulation that states that which is why you don't know the details. Otherwise, put up or shut up, drive by loon.
CJ,
Slightly off topic, but still relevent I think, but I have an issue I am considering taking to IG but I still haven't quite pieced everything together yet and determined whether or not I have a valid complaint, and whether or not IQ is the most appropriate method of filing this complaint.
A little background: I am a fairly new NCO, Sergeant, and only this month hit my 3 year mark. I am currently deployed to Iraq and have yet again been assigned another fairly diasspointing assignment. Even 7+ years into this conflict I'm currently living in a tent with no air conditioning. Thankfully I was able to procure satellite internet for the unit. I currently serve as the day shift NCOIC in the Command Post, and for the last 18 months or so I have also been the Orderly Room NCO.
My situation is this: My 1SG and Commander are EXTREMELY unliked, at every level. I sit in the CP on a daily basis and hear Lieutenants and Platoon Sergeants express their dislike and comment amongst themselves at the inadequecies displayed by current Chain of Command. Just this last week though a FRAGO was published that ordered a Command Climate Survery be conducted, I am sure you are familiar with these. Well, needless to say, the results showed a severe lack of faith in the COC at every level, and they failed to score high in ANY category.
It's been the topic of the day between the 1SG and Commander and most of the leadership, and I personally overheard the Commander and 1SG discussion they're belief, one I've heard before, that "The Soldier's just don't understand, we do what we can. The issue here is that the AC doesn't work. Moral is directly tied to the AC, there's nothing we can do about it, blah blah blah."
Now, mind you, most of us (nearly everyone, actually) had an idea what was going on and was actually displaying some hope that finally their complaints might be heard, and things might change. Well, before they were able (forced) to turn the results in, the BN EO Rep noticed that they hadn't broken the results of this anonymous survey into three separate groups: Officers, NCO's and Enlisted. This prompted the 1SG and Commander to reread the FRAGO, only to discover that it also stated that the requirement was that the survey only had to be conducted by 20% of the unit or so. In this case 20% of 56 Soldiers only means 11 people. So, as a result of failing to segregate the survey into groups determined by rank, they decided that only the 2 Lieutenants, 2 Sergeant First Class Platoon Sergeants, 1 Staff Sergeant Headquarters Platoon Sergeant, and 2 Staff Sergeant Gunnery Sergeants, and a few other Senior members of the unit to comprise the necessary 20%.
I am simply appalled by this, and dumbfounded. To me this reeks of immoral behavior, and touches on Fraud and Abuse, and it also fails to follow a written and published order, the FRAGO.
At this point I am beyond all comprehension. I can no longer just sit here and deal with this, it's outrageous and goes against everything I believe in, both as a Soldier and as a human being. and it definitely has no regard for the Army values. I'm dumbfounded, and I want to do something about it.
So my question is this: Do I have a valid complaint here? And if I do, would IG be the most appropriate place to file this complaint? I have already voiced my disapproval to my immediate supervisor and Platoon Sergeant, both of which basically told me there is nothing they can do. Just for the record though, my Platoon Sergeant is one of the few people who actually respects the Chain of Command. He frequently plays World of Warcraft with the Commander, is the Commander's only "friend" in the unit, his workout buddy, etc. He also just recieved a FLAWLESS NCOER from the 1sg. Five excellent blocks and a 1 over 1 rating, while the only Staff Sergeant underneath him got not a single Excellent block and a 3 over 3 rating. He's a Staff Sergeant, non-Promotable, with barely 8 years in the Army, acting as an HQ Platoon Sergeant for less than six months.
I'm perplexed, dumbfounded and confused, and generally disheartened about the whole thing. I can't just sit by while this sort of thing continues to happen. My Commander is lazy, likes to poke fun at people, make fun of Soldiers, has no Officer peers outside of strict duty, and is generally an unprofessional goofball. He uses words like "lol" in general conversation, and when's he bored in the CP he does things like choke people out, take shots with random objects and people's groins, and hands out "titty-twisters" and the like. He never gets into uniform unless he has to, which being on a remote site means almost never, sleeps in until 1000 or so, stays up until 0200 most night playing World of Warcraft. Complains about everyone not being professional and complaining about everything, and completely supports our overbearing, out of control 1SG, who actually hit a Soldier in the chest with a trash can the other day, nearly knocked him over. The 1SG is another story entirely, he's completely unable to let anyone work unsupervised, at every level. He actually reprimanded me the other day because I took initiative without telling him first. All I did was move a communications satellite from behind some barriers for a better signal, and I ran it through the Commander before I did it. He actually ordered me to report to him everything the Commander tells me to do. The Commander doesn't mind, because 1SG prepares all of his paperwork for him, writes his reports, and performs all of the duties typically associated with a Commander, and the Commander just signs off an everything and goes back to playing World of Warcraft.
I know at this point I'm just ranting, but this situation is out of control and I need to do something to act on it. Any advice you might have to offer would be more than appreciated.
*EDIT*
I apologize for some of the spelling/grammer in my previous post, I made the mistake of not going back and reading it over before I posted it.
CJ,
I Have a few questions to… I had filed a formal complaint against someone with authority about a month ago, the case was closed already, but the day before it was over the commander decided to do a CHU inspection and checks a room that is not on his roster, and accused me of cohabiting with another person. I admit to it, but what I don't understand is that, how they have a curfew time from 2300-0600, but then you have people who work night shift who can have people of the opposite sex in their CHU sleeping with them whenever they please. And officers are suppose to be the most professional of them all. and they are the ones sleeping around with each other too. the 1SG and commander made me stay at work waiting for them until 0130 in the morning so he can drink beer at the DFAC and they told me that they had a couple of beer so they couldn't drive, they couldn't even walk straight. A 1SG who told me that my job is to protect the commander. A commander who willingly purchased alcohol to his soldiers, getting them drunk and then asking them if they are going to reenlist and if they are going to deploy. some how I feel as if this is retribution because the punishment should warrant the offense. But if the commander is aware of senior NCOs (both SFC and MSG) and SSG are drinking alcohol with underage privates that are their soldiers, and they are doing nothing of it, why are they trying to purposely destroy me. Does this seem like retribution to you? I'm beyond confused. If you would like please feel free to email me.