Fed Up
October 29th, 2009 by Emily
The PTA president is out of control! She may think she has some leverage over my husband by continuously calling the Army, but she has no control over me.
Cj has done nothing but stand up for his rights as a parent. And he hasn't been alone. There are numerous other parents who were just as upset about uniforms as we were initially. But, this is no longer about uniforms. This is about a Principal and a lapdog PTA President who have had their egos bruised and didn't like being told how to follow their own rules. They were embarrassed and instead of being adults about it, they continue to make up false accusations against my husband and conveying through Army channels.
Cj got a call today that he was supposed to meet with the Colonel on base tomorrow. As you know, he's on leave and nowhere near post. He was told that based off a letter that they won't get specific about from a woman they won't name, they were considering a general letter of reprimand. I don't know what that means, but Cj said it comes from a General officer.
Supposedly, whoever made the complaint to the Army that they – again – feel threatened. How and why we have no idea! They are also complaining that Cj posted the videos here yesterday without permission. He's already sought legal advice about whether he's legally allowed to do it and here it is:
If you were recording this meeting openly (that is, the camera was in the open and it was apparent to attendees that it was being recorded, rather than being secretly recorded in some way), you do not need consent of people who appeared at the meeting in order to publish the video. If you are planning on posting it online, you may do so without obtaining the specific consent of any of the people shown.
It probably would be best that you not identify the son by name, particularly if he is a minor, but you would not need consent from him or his parents to use the recording of this public event, including the scene where he walks into camera view.
Yes, the camera was placed plainly on the table without camouflage and a bright red light indicating it was on. The meeting was public. The Army is complaining that this entire thing is giving the Army a bad name. His unit is claiming that it's giving them a bad name. I don't understand how this could be. He hasn't done anything wrong. We can only assume that because people are calling the Mayor, Governor and others that they are starting to ask questions of the Army. We don't know because no one is telling Cj anything.
Since he gets in trouble every time he writes something, I'm going to write what's going on. They can't do anything to me and I'm tired of Cj being sent down the river for standing up for my kids, and himself. He has been yelled at by senior NCOs and given a formal counseling after the first meeting back on October 1st. Now the Army is trying to push a general letter of reprimand on him and kick him out of the unit. For what? Nothing! For defending himself against unwarranted accusations!
What gets me is that it's not just Cj who is speaking out against this issue! He just happens to be the one with the blog to write about it. Why aren't other parents – even other military parents – getting sent through the ringers on this? Cj has done nothing but follow the rules the entire time. He was shut down at the PTA meeting when he tried explaining the rules that were being broken by others. He was told he was being "hostile" for mere debate! That his whole demeanor was 'threatening'. And, when the video came out, and showed that he wasn't, that's where they got pissed. We were not the only parents who were upset at both the PTA president and the Principal. Others have sent NUMEROUS e-mails being aggressive and blunt with both of them, and, of course, nothing has come about on them for what they said in letters.. They still, unfortunately, have their kids in that school and have to deal with that (those) women.
You have a superintendent that did nothing to diffuse the situation, but lay blame on CJ for how the principal acted. It's absolutely disgusting when a senior NCO is actively going out of his way to JAG to see how he can screw my husband up the ass. Shouldn't HE be the one getting the counseling for being unprofessional? I've had my butt lectured by the chain of command and feeling utterly frustrated that they are trying to bind our hands at any defense that we have against these lies – and I'm a civilian. And come to find out, the reason for the phone call that spurred it, was a COMPLETE LIE (all three out of the four complaints ended up being false, only because no one will tell us what the new complaint is about). Through all this time, still, they think that it's just Cj who feels this way about the school and the people running it.
Tell me people, what recourse do we have? Cj may have to drop it, but you better believe if this crap doesn't stop, I will be calling the press when i get home, with a host of other parents behind me, I will be calling the mayors office, I will be calling the Governor's office, I will be calling all my congressmen/women about it, I will do my best to make the story national because it has got to stop.
These two woman have lied and stretched the truth time and time again-with e-mails and video to prove it- and the only one getting grief over it is….Cj.
Tags: school uniforms
Posted in Military Perspective
Maybe a petition would help? The petition being signed by other parents in the area. It could show CJ's command exactly how many people agree with what is going on? What about a harrassment charge against these people? You cannot continually call someones place of work just because it is the Army.
I have no doubt you will prevail. I wanted to say kick their ignorant useless asses, but I won't…
Sharon M
I honestly do not know what to say other than how truly sorry I am! Hopefully things will cool off now that your children are not going to that school. But I don't know if Cj plans to keep pursuing this or not now.
Anyway, my prayers are with y'all. Again, I am truly sorry this is happening. So are y'all leaving or is Cj flying home? Call me if you need to!
Love ya,
Hilary
Yes, I'm going to continue pursuing this! I'm not going to be bullied by the school system and I'm not going to be bullied by an Army who has stepped on my feet and invaded my personal business. I understand they were brought into this, but they could have easily ended this instead of continuing to placate this woman! She keeps calling them because they are listening.
I have done NOTHING wrong and I don't care how many people in the Army can't see that. This is not an Army issue. I'm beginning to feel like the support I was getting is a bunch of talk to get me to back down and not defend myself. It's insane. I will NOT give up until a judge has ruled on this!
CJ, could you cross post this blog in School Uniforms. I sent an Email to the Montgomery Advertiser asking for them to look into why the military isn't being supported. The link I gave them was to soldierspersp...ol-uniforms/
I meant to post this yesterday as a result of CJ's post, but was OBE.
You ARE right, Top. But will your chain back YOU, or cave into THEM?
"I've learned from sources close to Ms. Thomas that she is trying to organize a concerted campaign against me and encouraging people to lie to Army officials to get me in trouble. This is from a supposed veteran!"
I warned you this would happen.
BE CAREFULL. Ten minutes after you're gone (rhetorically speaking) those morons will forget all about you. Mishandled, this situation could eat away at your career like a cancer.
These people think they can HURT you because you have the guts to stand up to them.
The problem here is that this is a GAME to them… and this is your LIFE to you and your family.
Just… be careful, First Sergeant. All of our support (which I believe you have) won't make up for a single point knocked of your NCOER about this crap when it comes time for you to get looked over by the E-9 Board.
You both rock, and I stand completely behind you. Perhaps this apparent hell is to wake people up to just what is going on in the Huntsville school system. It takes someone strong to stand up to bullies and make the necessary battle for change. People are terrified of bullies and it takes someone special to dig in and do what has to be done. Why are the people who say they are upset not getting in touch with the newspapers, tv and Army? Why are they being silent? They should be ashamed of themselves.
Is there anyway that the recording can be used to prove to the "powers that be" that CJ is being lied about?
CJ and Emily, you must be doing something very important and right for this much hateful opposition to be coming down on you. Change, particularly in our part of the country, is hard and painfully won. I pray that you will have the strength and patience to continue until victory in this stupid melee. God Speed
Hey Guys,
Make sure you have a digital recorder that can tape 100 hours of stuff and never leave home without it. Record all conversations, it will pay off in the long run. Stay tough…
Semper Fi,
Taco
Emily,
I, like others here am so sorry that this is happening to you guys. I can't believe how a situation like this can turn into something so awful with lies and them going to the Army to get CJ in trouble. That shows you what kind of people these school officials are. Ruthless and determined to get their way no matter what.
You guys hang in there and stand your ground. I just know that things will work out well for you!
Well I am totally amazed at Huntsville AL and I know so many nice folks in AL but so glad I don't know that bunch.
I believe I am going to see if I can get Glenn Beck to look into this. Maybe even have Emily and CJ on his show to air "their side" in this ugly mess because it seems no one else will listen to them.
I am behind you all 100%. I just can't believe this is happening in the USA!! And for CJ's unit to act the way they are acting is absolutely disgusting!!!!
It sounds like the Chain of Command needs to reach down and grab pair and tell the school that unless they are pressing actual charges they need to stop calling and bothering them with ridiculous claims. WE ARE FIGHTING TWO WARS. I know I don't have time to put up with civilians wasting my time on a daily basis and I have no problem telling them that. As a Senior NCO I can tell you that too often the Chain of Command would rather placate civilians than stand up for their Soldiers. It's sad and pathetic but sometimes true. The leadership needs to be reminded that if any of the schools claims were actually true then they would have filed a police complaint. What school wouldn't file a report if they actually thought they were being threatened? They won't file a report because they are afraid of getting caught in a lie and charged with filing a false report. It's easier to call the gullible officers in the Army who just want to make every civilian happy. Start a petition – it may or may not work with the Chain of Command – but it always works with the media…
Let me know if I can help in anyway. This crap has got to stop and the only way to do this is to stand up to them. They have been getting away with this bullying nonsense for far too long.
If the parents in the school won't step up, you have a lot of "family" out here that will. Even with the Army.
Emily and CJ, go to the press!!!
Let me know when you are going to the press. I will be there in support as a taxpayer whose money is being wasted on this baseless crap.
You can submit a "news tip" at the bottom of this page.
http://www.waaytv.com/
Also, another local news channel where you can submit tips (on the left side, about half way down) whnt.com/news...disoncounty/
I think right now, it's best if the other parents would step up on this issue in a major way. He is in a very difficult position, and it would not do well for him to be contacting the media.
Parents in the to write to the Alabama State PTA Board of Directors. State very clearly in one paragraph that you believe parliamentary procedure was ignored, and be specific as to how –they skipped the debate. In another paragraph tell how the Grisham family was treated and the ensuing result. Just make sure the letter is no longer than 2 paragraphs long! They just won't read anything longer. Send it via certified mail. Yes, on paper.
Tell them you would like the PTA President removed, and the issue re-examined and a new meeting. At that time, parliamentary procedure may be followed and a new vote can be made. Then follow it up with a phone call.
The other parents can also talk to both local and regional newspapers. Pay attention to the smaller newspapers –the weeklies. They're often a lot more interested in stories like this. While circulation is down, it doesn't hurt to get an interview. Make sure you do not accuse anyone of doing anything else other than disregarding Robert's Rules of Order.
As for whomever is reading this blog and making the phone calls –please stop. Inevitably, your identity will be found out, and this always causes a lot of embarrassment to you in the community. Let along your kids!
Sorry about all the typos. I am literally doing this on the fly waiting for a train.
And I meant that Parents in the Huntsville area should contact the State PTA. I think if any of us contact them, we'd be seen as interlopers. So best to get a good solid local effort going.
Thank you for standing up for your rights. I am pleased that there is someone unafraid to exercise yours and our inalienable rights. Good for you, and I hope you continue doing so. From what it sounds like, you were notified about the "considering a letter of reprimand" merely for formality purposes. You will not get a reprimand when you have committed no crime. You will, however, continue to receive this harassment until someone in the Army chain of command grabs sack and puts an end to the nonsense. From what I understand, nonsense it is, and any commander who will listen to the JAG department will handle it. What we are seeing is a failure – or a delay – of the command to do precisely that.
I respectfully request that you maintain your position and stand for what you know is right.
Don't tread on me.
Watching this one closely, and ready to go viral when you say.
Meanwhile, keeping you all in my prayers as you prove to bullies that bullying will NOT work..
This can go viral whenever you want it to! We're fed up and I'm not taking it anymore.
Ohman, ohman, oh MAN! Unbelievable…they went running to the Army when you wouldn't back down! The power-mad demigods of school boards & PTA just aren't prepared for a battle; most people are sheep, and that's what they count on to continue their reign of terror. Strong words? Yes, but look what's happening all over the country. Little people with little minds and smaller souls have grabbed the power & twisted it to serve their own agendas.
GO VIRAL, go to the press, go all the way to the top! I promise you that you will have support, not just from the downtrodden masses(parents) but from the Army. Too many Americans have been pushed around for too long. It may seem like a "little, small-town matter" but this is where it starts. And I'll be here with you until it ends.
DON'T GIVE UP THE GOOD FIGHT! Show the kids that the good guys take the hits but don't back down! HOOAH!
When I was in the Navy, some jackass tried to pursue me for scratching his car. He never got anywhere in the Courts (because he was never able to prove I scratched his damn car) so he got the bright idea to send a letter accusing me of all sorts to my CO.
The jackass's letter was forwarded to Base Legal. I got called in and the JAG showed it to me.
JAG then showed me the letter he drafted in response to the jackass telling him to stuff it. That just because I was serving in the US Navy didn't mean that I'd given up my Constitutional right to Due Process and to not write to my CO again.
Doesn't the Constitution you have been defending guarantee your right to face your accusers? In the civilian workplace, at least, any action that goes into your personnel jacket must identify the originator of the action.
Emily, as far as the army is concerned you're not a civilian, take it from an army wife who fought the system in the 6o's.
As for the meeting – the US and THEM atmosphere was fixed when the non-PTA members were segregated. No wonder they didn't want press there. That was just wrong on so many levels.
Watched the videos and wasn't clear – who was responsible for the motion? Why would an anonymous motion even be entertained? The way she handled it even before CJ spoke up was a big red flag, surely CJ wasn't the only one to catch that. During the roll call were you waved over because she already knew you? Did I hear a comment that CJ's commander had already been contacted? Police at a PTA meeting – did I get that right? If so who called them and why?
All the meeting stuff aside, for these civilians to take it upon themselves to sabotage your career is absolutely REPREHENSIBLE. I'd like to think the Colonel will stand behind you but not holding my breath on that one.
Above all, if you bring the press into this be prepared. The army won't like it, that's for darn sure, and you have to be SO careful what you say to the reporter. (Learned that the hard way too) Even then, both video and letters can, and probably will, be edited, even letters to the editor of your paper.
I think the best thing CJ has going for him is the video which shows he wasn't acting aggressive. His voice was loud, and he was assertive. The women got their backs up and it escalated. CJ left.
Perhaps the PTA wasn't the proper forum but if thats the case the motion shouldn't have even been mentioned. In the end this seemed to be less about the uniforms and more about procedure.
Lastly, I think I heard it said the uniforms weren't mandatory until next school year.
Pattie,
To answer your q's real quick before i hit the sack, here goes.
Cj was responsible for the motion..she lied when she said that she didn't know who it was from. To follow policy, he gave her a copy of it days in advance for no surprises.
Yes, she knew who we were, i can't say that's WHY she did it, just that i think that's why she did.
Yes, at this point they had already contacted the army saying that he was threatening them because he suffered from ptsd(pta pres and principal). When his commander responded that it's not his matter, that's when they took it to garrison who so obviously didn't.
The pta president and the principal asked the secuirity to be there-just for cj. we have a woman on the board who came forward a few weeks later who told us all that they had done to try and get cj into trouble. Notice how they weren't in any other parents' faces who were much louder than cj.
Yes, it did say uniforms weren't mandatory until next school year. we already knew that the day after the first uniform meeting that got so far out of hand. The point wasn't to debate uniforms, it was to get parental involvment on the decision making process-which they skipped over when they read the motion.
To be honest, i don't really want the fight. I would like right just to make itself right. We are both stressed to the max and would like nothing more for this to go away. That can't happen until they stop caling garrison and garrison stops letting them dictate what they should do. The pTA president was even the one who told them she wanted UCMJ action on Cj.
I'm sorry this is happening to you and your family. As a former military brat and army wife I can say first hand that many times civilians have used the UCMJ to their advantage.
I hope this issue is resolved, and please don't stop fighting and allow these people to ruin your career.